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  1. #1

    Dyno d the car today interesting results

    2013 Viper GTS with ARH long tubes, hi flow cats, Corsa catback exhaust, underdrive pulley, and Arrow PCM. Car made 552 WHP and 517 WTQ.


    Same shop had a bone stock 2014 Viper TA in a few months ago and showed me the file on it....the stock TA made 475whp. Go figure......




    https://youtu.be/yC5xV8tvJqM
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    With a 15% loss that would be 649 at the crank. I would have thought with those mods it would have been higher.
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  3. #3
    Enthusiast uberpube's Avatar
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    It would make a gazillion horsepower on a Dynojet.... Oh it is a Dynojet, you'd make a 127 rwhp on a Dyno dynamics..

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGeorge View Post
    With a 15% loss that would be 649 at the crank. I would have thought with those mods it would have been higher.
    I agree....however a stock 2014 Viper TA made 475 at the wheels.....either Dodge is lying about 640HP factory output or the dyno reads low.

    Tuner said that cars that make 550ish at the wheels at his shop run mid/high 10s at 130-132.

  5. #5
    Enthusiast Rare Snake's Avatar
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    Damn. I'm hitting the dyno this Saturday, I was really hoping to see 530-540 on my stock '14 GTS, but maybe not if these are the numbers with mods. :/

    Also SNK3BIT, I haven't ignored your request for more pics...I'm always on the forums at work and I have no pics here. lol
    First it was a '95 RT/10, then came the '01 GTS. Now it's a '14 GTS. They say the third time's the charm, I have to agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rare Snake View Post
    Damn. I'm hitting the dyno this Saturday, I was really hoping to see 530-540 on my stock '14 GTS, but maybe not if these are the numbers with mods. :/

    Also SNK3BIT, I haven't ignored your request for more pics...I'm always on the forums at work and I have no pics here. lol

    I think his stock numbers are the lowest ever posted? But if you ignore the low numbers and just compare the differences, 77rwhp for those mods isn't too far out of line... 60rwhp for headers and Arrow + ~10 for the pulley...etc
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  7. #7
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    What were the temps in the shop? Did you note the IATs during the pulls?
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes, 5-Spokes
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    Enthusiast uberpube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    What were the temps in the shop? Did you note the IATs during the pulls?
    That doesn't matter with SAE correction on the dyno.

  9. #9
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberpube View Post
    That doesn't matter with SAE correction on the dyno.
    SAE correction won't factor in how much timing the PCM may be pulling if the temps were high.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes, 5-Spokes
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    It most certainly does as the ECU pulls timing as IAT's climb. SAE corrections account for atmospheric conditions, but not for the influence of those atmospheric conditions on the ECU.
    Last edited by 1.8t; 09-27-2016 at 06:15 PM.
    2014 Viper TA - headers/exhaust/tune - 11.16@132.87mph, 1.95 60'
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  11. #11
    Enthusiast uberpube's Avatar
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    If you are looking for 50 rwhp in intake air temp correction timing, not gonna happen.

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    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberpube View Post
    If you are looking for 50 rwhp in intake air temp correction timing, not gonna happen.
    You sure? http://driveviper.com/forums/threads...ght=arrow+dyno
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes, 5-Spokes
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  13. #13
    Enthusiast uberpube's Avatar
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    Are you trying to say all they changed was the IAT vs Timing table to achieve the gains? I'd like to see what the factory IAT vs timing adjustments are if you have them. Its actually an interesting discussion as to what the dyno sees for correction, we have to assume the the IAT vs timing table to set to achieve a cylinder pressure supported by the fuel.

  14. #14
    Enthusiast LmeaViper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNK3BIT View Post
    I agree....however a stock 2014 Viper TA made 475 at the wheels.....either Dodge is lying about 640HP factory output or the dyno reads low.

    Tuner said that cars that make 550ish at the wheels at his shop run mid/high 10s at 130-132.
    I seriously wouldn't worry about the you should have gotten X numbers, as dyno's numbers vary a lot for a number of reasons. For starters, tell us about how the additional power feels and then see if anyone has a stock one around you to compare against. If you are around me, I am game for a comparison.
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    1/4 mile trap speed would also be good to know.

  16. #16
    I would not worry about the dyno numbers. 475whp on the stock TA --> 550whp on your car is what I would focus on.

    Get the car to a track or run it on a PBOX and I'm sure you'll find its performing well.

  17. #17
    Enthusiast 98intrigue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racegate View Post
    I would not worry about the dyno numbers. 475whp on the stock TA --> 550whp on your car is what I would focus on.

    Get the car to a track or run it on a PBOX and I'm sure you'll find its performing well.
    100%. All dynos are different. My car made 508whp stock and 571whp with UD pulley, Belanger headers and exhaust, and Arrow PCM. I'll be racing the car at FL2K to see how it does.
    Ryan - Viperless... for now
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  18. #18
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    You really have to use the search function before making misleading comments, the stock PCM kills the hp when the IAT's get into the 90's. Even the Arrow PCM pulls significant timing, an HPT tuned car can do better.


    Quote Originally Posted by uberpube View Post
    If you are looking for 50 rwhp in intake air temp correction timing, not gonna happen.
    Self tuned HPT 10.85@130 mph (DA=+1000)
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  19. #19
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberpube View Post
    Are you trying to say all they changed was the IAT vs Timing table to achieve the gains? I'd like to see what the factory IAT vs timing adjustments are if you have them. Its actually an interesting discussion as to what the dyno sees for correction, we have to assume the the IAT vs timing table to set to achieve a cylinder pressure supported by the fuel.
    This is the stock IAT timing modifier:



    Keep in mind that there is a linear interpolation between points in that table, so anything warmer than 77F and it will start pulling timing (1 at 80, 2 at 83). On the Gen 4 and 5 Vipers, if the PCM pulls timing, it also adds fuel using a multiplier based on load and RPM. Less timing plus more fuel is not a good combo for a high dyno number.

    At this point, I'm not trying to say anything about the results in the first post...without the IATs and/or AFR, it's too hard to tell if that dyno just reads low or if the PCM is stepping in due to high IATs. If the conditions were good, the dyno probably reads low.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes, 5-Spokes
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    Is it the tune/conditions or a low Dynojet reading? My impression has always been that Dynojet's seem to show lower numbers overall?
    2009 Vert/Coupe Rear End. Intake/Head/Exhaust. 705 crank/614 Wheels. Custom Red Drivers Stripe. ACR Splitter. KW Shocks. Plastidipped 6 spokes.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post

    UHHH.....HOLY CRAP!!! I MAY BE GOING BACK FOR A CUSTOM TUNE.....LIKE TOMORROW!!!!!!!!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by racegate View Post
    I would not worry about the dyno numbers. 475whp on the stock TA --> 550whp on your car is what I would focus on.

    Get the car to a track or run it on a PBOX and I'm sure you'll find its performing well.
    AGREED......the massive difference means the mods are working like they should and could just be the dyno.....oh and whats a PBOX?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack B View Post
    You really have to use the search function before making misleading comments, the stock PCM kills the hp when the IAT's get into the 90's. Even the Arrow PCM pulls significant timing, an HPT tuned car can do better.
    Can the ARROW pcm be tuned or should i reinstall the stock pcm and have them tune it? Does it require unlocking etc?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rare Snake View Post
    Damn. I'm hitting the dyno this Saturday, I was really hoping to see 530-540 on my stock '14 GTS, but maybe not if these are the numbers with mods. :/

    Also SNK3BIT, I haven't ignored your request for more pics...I'm always on the forums at work and I have no pics here. lol
    that color scheme is badass

    Quote Originally Posted by edc View Post
    I think his stock numbers are the lowest ever posted? But if you ignore the low numbers and just compare the differences, 77rwhp for those mods isn't too far out of line... 60rwhp for headers and Arrow + ~10 for the pulley...etc
    ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    What were the temps in the shop? Did you note the IATs during the pulls?
    temps in the shop ranged from hot to stupid hot....it was noon in florida if that helps.

  22. #22
    For easier viewing....this guys first runs were almost identical to mine.....after custom tune he picked up a ton of power.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  23. #23
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    IAT can be 60+ degrees F over ambient at idle heat soak... Timing is pulled at 77 degrees F. This is why the intake heat shield was developed.

    Sheild Results Idle vs 40 mph.jpg
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SSGNRDZ_28 View Post
    IAT can be 60+ degrees F over ambient at idle heat soak... Timing is pulled at 77 degrees F. This is why the intake heat shield was developed.

    Sheild Results Idle vs 40 mph.jpg
    I have a DSE heat shield too....gold foil wrapped

  25. #25
    Enthusiast uberpube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSGNRDZ_28 View Post
    IAT can be 60+ degrees F over ambient at idle heat soak... Timing is pulled at 77 degrees F. This is why the intake heat shield was developed.

    Sheild Results Idle vs 40 mph.jpg
    That having that much affect would depend on the dynocell fan setup, or lack of it. OP would have to detail that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    This is the stock IAT timing modifier:



    Keep in mind that there is a linear interpolation between points in that table, so anything warmer than 77F and it will start pulling timing (1 at 80, 2 at 83). On the Gen 4 and 5 Vipers, if the PCM pulls timing, it also adds fuel using a multiplier based on load and RPM. Less timing plus more fuel is not a good combo for a high dyno number.

    At this point, I'm not trying to say anything about the results in the first post...without the IATs and/or AFR, it's too hard to tell if that dyno just reads low or if the PCM is stepping in due to high IATs. If the conditions were good, the dyno probably reads low.
    Also remember the dyno corrects the raw number higher with warmer temperatures, the question is does the correction of the dyno of the raw number upward match the power loss from the reduced timing, which I think it does as the J1349 correction factor is from standard conditions of 77 deg, right where the IAT tables start. I can tell you this with certainty , on a given day, every efi mopar I have dyno'd has registered more power as the vehicle got warmer and then plateaus . I attribute that the fluids warming up and less loss as oil gets hot, you'd think with the engine and then the intake getting hotter with engine temp it would fall, but it doesn't. I found that out playing with the diablo trinity on the jeep, to test its tunes I had to do runs each time till it plateaued continually.
    Dynojets are calibrated to the dynojet standard,a dynojet that is reading inconsistent to other dynojets, is a broken dynojet.


 
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