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  1. #126
    Enthusiast ViperGTS14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BJG32 View Post
    Reversing airflow would be even worse because of headers/engine heat. Temp readings need to be at the scoop opening and not at the heat soaked MAF sensor.
    I totally follow you, was being facetious about the situation like saying the following. "My Viper is fast but really fast when its 50-60 degrees out or just before it gets up to full operating temperature". Just frustrated that there really isn't a solution, just band-aids or a push to purchase a tune, should not be like that imo. You can feel the difference of 80 degrees to 100 IAT's.
    Last edited by ViperGTS14; 10-24-2019 at 07:55 AM.
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  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS14 View Post
    I totally follow you, was being facetious about the situation like saying the following. "My Viper is fast but really fast when its 50-60 degrees out or just before it gets up to full operating temperature". Just frustrated that there really isn't a solution, just band-aids or a push to purchase a tune, should not be like that imo. You can feel the difference of 80 degrees to 100 IAT's.
    Bite the bullet and wrap the intake tubes where the IAT sensors are. Makes a difference. You can also insulate the underside of the airbox with stick on insulation.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
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  3. #128
    Do y’all think they calibrated the sensors for this white in development? Seems like it’d be easy enough and cant think any reason they would leave this easy horsepower on the table?

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT_BluByU View Post
    Do y’all think they calibrated the sensors for this white in development? Seems like it’d be easy enough and cant think any reason they would leave this easy horsepower on the table?
    The only thing I can think of is they tested in Detroit during the winter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGeorge View Post
    Bite the bullet and wrap the intake tubes where the IAT sensors are. It makes a difference. You can also insulate the underside of the airbox with stick on insulation.
    Nearing doing this, just frustrated since it will look like crap imo.
    Last edited by ViperGTS14; 10-24-2019 at 04:18 PM.
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  5. #130
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    This isn't a sensor calibration issue...they do read correctly. The problem is the slow response time. I think the engineers also underestimated the impact of the timing they decided to pull in terms of power production.

    The "correct" answer (IMO) is to alter how much timing gets pulled with custom tuning, but the end user does have to assume the risk associated with that. I've run my Gen 4 for years this way with no ill effects to date, but I only take the gloves fully off when I'm at the drag strip. At all other times, the tune I run does pull some timing at elevated IATs, but not as much as the stock tune, and I also don't add fuel like the stock tune does either. That's how much risk I'm willing to assume.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by dethred View Post
    I would pay for whatever the solution is. I have the Arrow PCM, and had I known the HPTuners solution would solve it, I'd have gone that route. I have wrapped everything before the throttle body with gold heat foil and also wrapped my DSE heat shield. The foil made the biggest difference on it's own, and the Heat Shield lowered the delta between IAT and ambient by a further few degrees.

    The problem for me -- and I'm actually getting ready to sell the car because of it -- is that the car only makes full power when the tires are too cold to grip. I spin through second and a bit in third when the ambient temperature is below 70*F (which is required for the IAT's to consistently be below 86*F). What's the point in continuing to deal with the car when half the year it's making probably 500-550 crank horsepower, and the other half of the year it can't get any traction when it's making full power?

    I have missed out on winning a couple half mile races in the N/A class, because the car is an absolute pig in 90*F ambient temperatures. Part of the problem is convection almost completely nullifies the heat shielding if you sit there idling the car for a while waiting for your turn to make a pass.
    For those that are suggesting to wrap to solve the issue, I feel this guy whole heartly. Still wishing for a solution other than tuning.
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  7. #132
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    There currently isn't another solution. I would have said the same thing about getting better throttle response, but TKO appears to have fixed that problem recently. Maybe ask them to put some brain power behind this problem too?

  8. #133
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    The answer is cool-aid and I still regret sending mine back!

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    The answer is cool-aid and I still regret sending mine back!
    bing-go! I still tried reading between the lines as to why it was pulled they might not want to be liable. But wasn't his car head and cam which pinging and cause the recall of these aftermarket pull adapters? Shame if that was an isolated incident since everyone wants to buy them. It would be a lot cheaper than 1300 for HP tuners and dyno time, plus you're not tuning over the stock ECU for warranty reasons.

    I'd order one and install it in my sleep if it was still available.
    Last edited by ViperGTS14; 10-24-2019 at 05:59 PM.
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  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    There currently isn't another solution. I would have said the same thing about getting better throttle response, but TKO appears to have fixed that problem recently. Maybe ask them to put some brain power behind this problem too?
    Regarding the throttle commander box thingy, it works, I have it and love it. I'd say after 5 years that product is a viable solution to that issues. Now if this can be fixed the Gen 5's wouldn't be plagued with retarded timing based on high IAT's.
    2014 GTS

  11. #136
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    There is a guy on here that insulated his intake tubes and built insulated boxes around the IAT sensors (I don't remember who and I'm too lazy to search - just being honest). All of it wrapped in Carbon Fiber. Looks fantastic. I wish I had his skill or I wish he would make them and sell them. He'd sell a bunch.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
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  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGeorge View Post
    There is a guy on here that insulated his intake tubes and built insulated boxes around the IAT sensors (I don't remember who and I'm too lazy to search - just being honest). All of it wrapped in Carbon Fiber. Looks fantastic. I wish I had his skill or I wish he would make them and sell them. He'd sell a bunch.
    Agree his are really sharp looking, photos can be found on another similar thread. Sure it looks great but I'm not going through all that work, time and money to only reduce a few more degrees, the problem will still be there. If you follow others that have done similar to wrapping everything it still doesn't helpfully, just like the heat shield there will still be higher readings than the outside temp.
    Last edited by ViperGTS14; 10-24-2019 at 06:19 PM.
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  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS14 View Post
    bing-go! I still tried reading between the lines as to why it was pulled they might not want to be liable. But wasn't his car head and cam which pinging and cause the recall of these aftermarket pull adapters? Shame if that was an isolated incident since everyone wants to buy them. It would be a lot cheaper than 1300 for HP tuners and dyno time, plus you're not tuning over the stock ECU for warranty reasons.

    I'd order one and install it in my sleep if it was still available.
    Agreed, the only thing I could come up with is a scare about liability, IMO something that anyone who buys one would be waiving. I dont remember the exact numbers but it dropped the IAT read by like 15%. A different resistor could have changed that to 5-10%, that would have lowered the risk of detonation and provided a more accurate temp reading. Id buy one tomorrow if he or someone like TKO put one back on the market.

  14. #139
    It jsut seems like the original design engineers (who are car guys) have had ample opportunity to adjust that if it was an easy, free lunch, horsepower increase. If im reading the above correct it sounds lime the Arrow PCM calibration is similar to factory. Wouldnt Dick Winkles account for this if there wasnt some drawback?

  15. #140
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    Can we move the MAF sensor upstream and out of the radiator blast?

    Otherwise, I agree that getting the heat redirected and out of the engine bay is the cure. The question has always been how. I see the GT3R racecars had a much wider hood that allowed air to escape through the gaping openings behind the front wheel on both sides. They also used the GTS hood design that directs radiator heat up and out of the engine bay.

    Is there a way to blow it down and out the bottom of the engine bay if some of the underbody panels are removed or altered?

  16. #141
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    I constantly monitor the IAT and I have found, in the desert heat, that I can initially run within 10-12 degrees of OAT, but after I either slow down (traffic) or shut the engine off, the sensors appear to heat soak and I then will be as much as 30-35 degrees above OAT. After driving a while and keeping the speed up, the IATs will eventually get down to 18-22 degrees above IAT, but no lower. When the OAT is above 90 degrees the power loss is significant. This is with no shielding. I will re-install the shields/insulation and I am looking at using a pair of 2 inch duct hoses to route cooler, high pressure air (from in front of the radiator) to blow air between the heat shields and the air box and over the MAF/IAT sensors in an attempt to keep those components from heat soaking. I have even considered using something like a "cool shirt" design with a small pump circulating cold water through tubes around the air box and sensors, but that is a drastic step. Driving such a capable car at such a reduced power level is just not much fun.

    Pappy

    Edit: If there is an electrical engineer in the crowd, it might be possible to put a temperature sensor upstream and then use a circuit to compare that temperature reading with that of the IAT sensor(s). Based on the difference, the output could go to a variable resistor circuit that would adjust the IAT output to the computer for a more realistic, yet safe reading. The variable resistor with an intelligent input might reduce the risk of detonation. Above my pay grade!
    Last edited by Pappy; 10-25-2019 at 10:52 AM.
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  17. #142
    That sounds promising pappy.. i understand the problem now to be more of a idle heat soak issue.. not what driving.

  18. #143
    Enthusiast Jack B's Avatar
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    The airbox below has radiant barrier/insulation over the tubes, box and IAT. In addition, the box over the IAT's has aerogel on the inside and is sealed over the tubes/

    A little insight, a thermocouple inside the tubes shows temps that are way less than those displayed at the dash. They must use a decaying time-delay function between real and displayed values.


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  19. #144
    Wow slick! What was the resulting IAT profile like?

  20. #145
    Enthusiast Jack B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT_BluByU View Post
    Wow slick! What was the resulting IAT profile like?
    It totally isolates the IAT, there is a noticeable delay to temp rise, however, as soon as heat soak take place, the temp rise comes back, again, it is delayed. Under normal driving conditions, the higher the speed, the closer the IAT and OAT get. At 70 mph on an 80 deg day, there is approx an 8 deg diff.
    Self tuned HPT 10.85@130 mph (DA=+1000)
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  21. #146
    Enthusiast ViperGTS14's Avatar
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    Well done Jack!
    2014 GTS

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS14 View Post
    Well done Jack!
    A vendor like DSE or TKO should offer an insulated airbox and tube setup that looks nice (maybe carbon fiber wrapped). I would buy two. I know DSE offers the airbox shield which I have and it helps but using it with an insulated airbox and insulated tubes would be the way to go. Come on guys do this for Viper nation.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
    2008 Vert in Viper Bright Blue with silver stripes.
    2014 GTS in white with gunmetal stripes. I'm also one of the original 100's

  23. #148
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    Something like this would work nicely. Im Trackhawk shopping and this is on my list of first mods for it.

    https://killerchiller.com/

  24. #149
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    The Killerchiller has been around for a while. Such a cool product, never understood why it never got that popular. If I still had a supercharged car it would be a must have.
    2003 vert to coupe conversion. (Sold but still missed)
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  25. #150
    Enthusiast Redx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    Something like this would work nicely. Im Trackhawk shopping and this is on my list of first mods for it.

    https://killerchiller.com/
    It would need some type of a2w airbox, not a lot of room there for one.


 
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