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  1. #76
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viperBase1 View Post
    N' btw your car is lookin' bad ass in those pics.
    Thanks...all credit goes to the photog. I just show up with my B-game. But one of these days...one of these days I'll finally live up to this car's potential.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  2. #77
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Event: Thursday Night Test & Tune
    Date: October 21, 2021
    Location: Kil-Kare Dragway (Dayton, OH)

    The highlights:
    - The problem I was having shifting was definitely the clutch - switching back to the Nth Moto Triple Carbon fixed it
    - I managed to squeeze in 6 runs...much better than the 2 runs I got the previous week
    - The weather was...interesting. A cold front had just moved through, so temps were falling (good), but that came with a nasty 20 MPH cross-wind that turned into a 15 MPH head wind as the night went on (not so good)

    Mods with differences highlighted (one major change since 14 October 2021):

    Power Mods: Metallic Substrate High Flow Cats; Gen 5 Intake Manifold; HPTuners custom tune (mine)
    Supporting Mods: AEM 30-0300 Wideband O2 Sensor; DSE Heat Shield; DSE Closeout Panel; MCS Shocks; TDS Level 5 Axles; Ecliptech Shift Light; Parking Brake Cable Relocation Kit; Nth Moto Triple Carbon Clutch; Moroso Spark Plug Wires; Line Lock; Metal Throttle Bodies; Underdrive Pulley
    Tires: Hoosier DR2 (335/30-18), set to 24 psi hot mounted on Forgestar F14s (18x13 rear, 18x11 front)
    Rear Gears: 3.55
    Race Weight: ~3,600 lbs

    Weather conditions and estimated race weight:



    Long story short, I was able to get the McLeod RST swapped out for the old Nth Moto triple carbon within a week to salvage what was left of the 2021 racing season. It was not a decision I made lightly, and it certainly cost me a lot of time, but I had the parts and tools needed on hand, so I made it happen - on my back, in my garage. I was very concerned I had a transmission problem, but after swapping the old clutch back in and bleeding the clutch hydraulics really, really well, the transmission worked great. As a matter of fact, it had never shifted so well. I ended up only having one quick test drive plus the 30-minute drive to the track to reacquaint myself with it, but that's life sometimes.

    The first pass of the night was the big one from a pucker factor standpoint. I was the first street car down the track that evening, and it was a solo run (that's a slightly longer, but uninteresting story). I managed a successful 2nd gear burnout and a pretty weak launch, but the 1-2 shift was my biggest concern. Once I successfully made that shift, it was pretty much smooth sailing from then on. As a matter of fact, it was my quickest first pass of the day ever by almost a tenth of a second, which I found really promising.

    Unfortunately, that didn't pan out to a 10-second pass, but between the track conditions and the weather, it just wasn't meant to be. Still, the car was consistent across all six passes (minus the second one where I spun off the line), and that gave me a lot of confidence that I'm heading back in the right direction. I clearly picked up some bad habits launching the McLeod RST that just didn't translate well to getting the car off the line with the substantially lighter clutch assembly, and oddly enough, 6 passes spread out over 3.5 hours on a test and tune night just wasn't enough for me to get my technique sorted.

    I ended up having a couple of good runs against a stock Durango Hellcat though (runs #3 and #4):



    He got me off the line bad on both runs, but I was able to chase him down and pass him by the eighth mile.

    Standard complement of time slips (ignore the time stamps) and Dragy data below.





    Excel screen capture including the Density Altitude readings from my Kestrel 5100:



    Dragy 0-60 times (average without 1ft rollout = 3.56 sec; average with 1ft rollout = 3.3 sec):



    Dragy 60-130 times (average = 7.67 sec; best = 7.56 sec on run #4):

    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  3. #78
    Enthusiast 2quik6's Avatar
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    Great info and great determination! Looks like you are winning most all of the races still, cut that reaction time down and those wins will be a little easier. I have drag raced automatics for many decades, mostly an '87 Grand National for the last 25+ years. Trying to just do a good burnout much less launching the Viper is an art of its own! My hats off to you for being able to do that well.
    '05 SRT10 Ram Viper Truck - Paxton supercharged, Bellanger LT, 69# injectors, tune - 569whp/570wtq
    '05 SRT10 Viper Commemorative Edition - Paxton supercharged

  4. #79
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2quik6 View Post
    Great info and great determination! Looks like you are winning most all of the races still, cut that reaction time down and those wins will be a little easier. I have drag raced automatics for many decades, mostly an '87 Grand National for the last 25+ years. Trying to just do a good burnout much less launching the Viper is an art of its own! My hats off to you for being able to do that well.
    Thanks!

    My reaction times are all over the place...I think I've only red lit once in the 50 passes I've put on this car. Generally I'm trying to concentrate on my launch, but I can never seem to be able to ignore the person in the other lane going and me just sitting there like a goober.

    And my line lock makes the burnout really, really easy (or in other words, I cheat). I've never been coordinated enough to do it only with my feet, especially when the pedals are so close together in this car.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  5. #80
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    I still have a bunch of lessons learned from last year to add to this write-up, but just haven't had the time to put it all together. I don't think most will find them all that helpful, so I'll leave those on the back burner for now until I get some down time.

    So what's next?

    I haven't achieved my goal yet, but I'm still not out of ideas.

    With the addition of the underdrive pulley last year, I'm all out of power adding mods unless I'm willing to add headers, and at this point, I'm still not willing to do that.

    I can however, pull some weight out of the car, and that's what I intend to do (and pretty much already have).

    Over the winter, I managed to pull 50 pounds out of it pretty easily (although it wasn't cheap). If I ditch the subwoofer (32 pounds) and a few other odds and ends, I think my race weight will be 80-90 pounds lighter compared to last year's final runs.

    I'm also going to try to get out there earlier in the season, hopefully either later this month or early next month before the summer heat hits. It'll be the 3rd season on these drag radials, so we'll see if they get me through the rest of this year.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  6. #81
    So what's next?

    I haven't achieved my goal yet, but I'm still not out of ideas.

    Steve, maybe:

    - 3.73 gears?
    - A new tune?

    ... a camshaft?

  7. #82
    Enthusiast Patentlaw's Avatar
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    Hi Steve,

    Well, you asked. Up to now, you have tried the following:
    1) Stock car
    2) Different weather conditions
    3) Modifications

    At the first post, others have done it, through your videos. The only thing that you have not "modified" is the driver. Not trying to be a jerk. If similar cars can do it, and you have one, the only difference is the driver.

    Drag Racing School is your answer. You need to go to school to have someone give you pointers. No more modifications are probably necessary for your car.

  8. #83
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aevus View Post
    Steve, maybe:

    - 3.73 gears?
    - A new tune?

    ... a camshaft?
    3.73 gears would require me to raise the rev limiter with my current wheel/tire combo, but would likely help. Streetability would suffer though.

    I've messed with the tune once trying to improve what I already had, and it netted me a 10-15 HP loss, so I vowed to never mess with it again unless I changed something with the engine configuration.

    A camshaft is out of the question because of my current desire to maintain the drivability of the stock cam. The car still has excellent road manners...the ride is smooth, and the car drives exactly like stock until you get on it. My overall goal was to not lose any of the civility of the stock configuration, although I had to make a bit of a compromise with the clutch to gain the durability (the downside being the stiffer pedal).

    There is one mod you didn't mention, and it is one that I think would solve the problem outright: switching to an automatic transmission. All the fast cars at the track run autos. My pride won't let me do it though. That, and my wallet...that would be one very expensive swap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patentlaw View Post
    Hi Steve,

    Well, you asked. Up to now, you have tried the following:
    1) Stock car
    2) Different weather conditions
    3) Modifications

    At the first post, others have done it, through your videos. The only thing that you have not "modified" is the driver. Not trying to be a jerk. If similar cars can do it, and you have one, the only difference is the driver.

    Drag Racing School is your answer. You need to go to school to have someone give you pointers. No more modifications are probably necessary for your car.
    It was intended to be rhetorical, but I wasn't explicit. And, you make a solid point.

    I definitely know that I'm the biggest variable that needs changed at the moment. My intent with any of the mods done is to eliminate as much of the driver variable as possible, if that makes sense.

    It all comes down to the launch, and the only way to get that one down is more seat time. I have some things in mind I'm going to try, and we'll see what it gets me. I don't think there's a drag racing school out there that would help with my exact problem, mostly because what I'm trying to do is run a set elapsed time with my own car, not learn how to drive a purpose-built drag car which is what seemed to be available out there after a quick online search.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  9. #84
    3.73 gears would require me to raise the rev limiter with my current wheel/tire combo, but would likely help. Streetability would suffer though.

    You're hitting the rev limiter with your 3.55 at the end of the 1/4?
    and whats the RPM limit at the moment?

    streetability? uhm, going from 3.55 to 3.73 is very mild (+5%). In fact you could even consider 3.91 (+10%)

  10. #85
    ...just to be sure: 10.99 sec and you're finally opening the bottle of Champagne, am I right?

  11. #86
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aevus View Post
    You're hitting the rev limiter with your 3.55 at the end of the 1/4?
    and whats the RPM limit at the moment?

    streetability? uhm, going from 3.55 to 3.73 is very mild (+5%). In fact you could even consider 3.91 (+10%)
    I'm going through the traps around 6,000-6,100 RPMs or so with my current gearing (3.55s). After going through my gear ratio calculator spreadsheet, I was mistaken - the 3.73s would probably be about ideal with my current rear tire (335/30-18 Hoosier DR2) as the max speed @ 6,600 RPMs on a ~26" tire would be about 136 MPH.

    But my primary concern is still the streetability. With the 3.55s currently in there, the car already won't hook on the street from a 2nd gear roll on anything less than an R-compound tire. 3.73s would only make that worse.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  12. #87
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aevus View Post
    ...just to be sure: 10.99 sec and you're finally opening the bottle of Champagne, am I right?
    I think the car has a 10.6-10.7 in it, but I'd still be happy with a 10.999.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post

    But my primary concern is still the streetability. With the 3.55s currently in there, the car already won't hook on the street from a 2nd gear roll on anything less than an R-compound tire. 3.73s would only make that worse.
    Oh ok that's surprising, I have roughly 580hp @ crank at the moment and with the Wavetrac diff, 3.73 gears and 355 Kumho ACRs tires it's actually very hard to make it spin on a roll, unless the tires are cold.

    I'm actually installing 4.10 gears this week (for my upcoming high-rpm engine)

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    I think the car has a 10.6-10.7 in it
    Now you're being greedy


  15. #90
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  16. #91
    got into the 10's! congrats

  17. #92
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Didn't take long for it to show up on YouTube apparently (random guy filming the runs tonight in the stands):

    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  18. #93
    Enthusiast Old School's Avatar
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    Congratulations!

  19. #94
    10.86 !

    Congrats Steve

  20. #95
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    Congratulations Steve that’s awesome !!!
    Charter Member , SS OHIO

  21. #96
    Enthusiast 98intrigue's Avatar
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    A long time coming. Congrats, Steve!
    Ryan - 14 Stryker Green Nth Moto TT/Heads/Cam
    Past - 14 Stryker Green VE Stage II Heads/Cam, '16 ACR-E, '14 Anodized Carbon, '14 TA, Orange '03 Paxton vert w/coupe rear, Black '06 coupe w/SSG accents

  22. #97
    Congrats Steve, you finally did it!!

    So what was the final config?
    2008 Viper SRT-10 Very Viper Orange Coupe * The Orange Lure (Black On Orange)
    2015 Porsche - Mid-Engine Cayman w/PDK / Black * The Black Caiman (Orange On Black)

  23. #98
    Enthusiast Patentlaw's Avatar
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    Congrats Steve. Your post has been great to watch for some time and is really valuable for those looking to get lower times. Your car is a beast and the driver good as well.

  24. #99
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Event: Thursday Night Test & Tune
    Date: April 21, 2022
    Location: Kil-Kare Dragway (Dayton, OH)

    The highlights:
    - Finally got my first 10 second pass (10.86), and managed to back it up 2 runs later with a 10.94

    Mods with differences highlighted (one minor change since 21 October 2021):

    Power Mods: Metallic Substrate High Flow Cats; Gen 5 Intake Manifold; HPTuners custom tune (mine)
    Supporting Mods: AEM 30-0300 Wideband O2 Sensor; DSE Heat Shield; DSE Closeout Panel; MCS Shocks; TDS Level 5 Axles; Ecliptech Shift Light; Parking Brake Cable Relocation Kit; Nth Moto Triple Carbon Clutch; Moroso Spark Plug Wires; Line Lock; Metal Throttle Bodies; Underdrive Pulley
    Tires: Hoosier DR2 (335/30-18), set to 24 psi hot mounted on Forgestar F14s (18x13 rear, 18x11 front)
    Rear Gears: 3.55
    Race Weight: ~3,524 lbs

    Weather conditions and estimated race weight:



    Bottom line: I pulled some weight out (around 90 pounds worth). Here's what I did to get there:

    - StopTech 2-piece slotted rotors (thanks Jon B!) - saved 31.3 pounds
    - Pulled the subwoofer - saved 32 pounds
    - Interior weight reduction - pulled the center "subwoofer" assembly (saved ~8.5 pounds), and pulled the spare tire inflation device (saved ~4.3 pounds)
    - Swapped to the DSE carbon fiber belly pan (reason here: https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...l=1#post455860) - saved 6.6 pounds
    - Ditched some gear - laptop + HPT interface (put it in my wife's car, saved ~7 pounds)

    That's 89.7 pounds for those counting. The car is still what I'd consider a full interior car - all seats still installed, it still has a functional stereo (minus the bass), all interior panels in place, all interior carpet in place. The factory center subwoofer has always been a disappointment, so ditching that thing was an easy choice. Should have done that years ago.

    And now on to the story.

    I had been watching the weather all week. It was supposed to rain that morning, but clear out around 1 PM or so, and then rain later that night. The forecast ended up doing exactly that, leaving a nice window for a standard test & tune night. The humidity was a bit high, but the the temperature was about perfect, the barometric pressure was up, and there was no massive head wind this time. I showed up around 4:30, and was the first one through tech inspection. I immediately went to the staging lanes, and proceeded to go through my normal pre-race stuff (mainly just lowering the rear tire pressures). 5 o'clock rolled around, and it was only me and a couple other cars at that point, which is unusual; normally there are about 20 cars ready to go, increasing to 100+ by the end of the night. This is the earliest I've ever been out during the racing season, so maybe that's normal. I have a feeling the weather forecast had scared a lot of people off though...definitely their loss.

    On my first pass, I decided to try doing a much lower RPM launch, slipping the clutch as best I could to keep the car from bogging. That resulted in one of the worst 60' times I've ever had (~2.2 seconds). When I got the time slip, the only thought that went through my head was "this is going to be a long night." I pulled back into the staging lanes, and there wasn't anyone there. The guy directing traffic asked if I wanted to go again, so I said sure, why not? Never had a chance to hot lap the car, so might as well take advantage. I ended up launching the car at around 4,000 RPMs with a slight slip, and the car seemed to take off okay. It felt just like any of my other runs actually...the truck in the left lane took off like a bat out of hell, so I was doing my best to not screw up my shifting so I could get around him after the 1/8th mile. When I pulled around to get my time slip, I was stopped by one of the track workers (which was a bit odd)...once he saw I had my fire jacket and helmet on, he gave me the thumbs up and sent me on my way to the time booth. I grabbed the time slip, and just about shit myself when I saw the time: 10.86. It took a few seconds to register what had just happened, but I was finally holding that coveted time slip in my hand. Clearly that launch worked - it netted a 1.68 60' time. Guess the light weight Nth Moto clutch just requires some practice, and more importantly, patience.

    I went back to the staging lanes intending to let the car cool off a bit, but there still wasn't anyone there. Guy asked if I wanted to go again, so I decided to give it another whirl. That one wasn't quite as impressive - an 11.05, which was pretty similar to what I was running the last time I was out on 21 October. After that pass, I parked the car and joined my family in the stands to watch some of the action while everything cooled off.

    About an hour later, I decided to give it one more shot...I was really hoping to back up that first 10 second slip with another to prove it wasn't a random fluke. I was actually feeling a lot of pressure from the track announcer - while the track crew was cleaning up a mess in the left lane (which took about another hour, and resulted in them shutting that lane down), the announcer said something to the effect of "And there's a Dodge Viper in the staging lanes!" The guy seemed pretty enamored with it, so I really wanted to put on a good show for him and the rest of the crowd there, and hopefully not embarrass the Viper nation in the process. I ended up having to fiddle around with my line lock during the burnout (hit the button before I had pressure on the brakes), so I was already looking like a total amateur. Rolled up to the line, and then proceeded to launch the car a little soft (~1.80 60' time), but that's apparently all it took. When I grabbed that final slip, the guy at the booth said "Nice run!"...I looked at the time slip, and saw the 10.94 - mission accomplished.

    Finally.

    I still need to edit the videos I have, but the 10.86 run showed up on YouTube (shown a few posts above) that evening, and someone else caught the 10.94 and managed to find me on Instagram to let me know it was on his channel:



    The guy filming was there in his Ford Explorer running high 11s that night...definitely impressive.

    Standard complement of time slips (ignore the time stamps on the first three runs) and Dragy data below.



    Excel screen capture including the Density Altitude readings from my Kestrel 5100 (you can see me carrying it in my hand in the staging lanes in the video above):



    Dragy 0-60 times (average without 1ft rollout = 3.66 sec; average with 1ft rollout = 3.33 sec):



    Dragy 60-130 times (average = 7.46 sec; best = 7.37 sec on run #4):



    That 7.37 second 60-130 time is a new personal best; it's too bad I didn't do that well on my record quarter mile pass - it would have been deeper in the 10s for sure.

    But still - the car performed well, and I was able to drive to and from the track without issue. Even without a 10 second pass, I would have called that a successful evening. My 1/8th mile trap speeds were higher than they've ever been, and the car trapped just over 130 on every single pass in the quarter. As-is, the car is reliable and runs consistently pass after pass, even hot lapping it.

    If you'll recall, these were my goals from the first post:

    1. Run a solid 10 second pass in a full weight car under average weather conditions (low 70s ambient temps, usually good for +2,000 ft DA around here)
    2. Trap 130+ in average weather
    3. Limit power mods to basic bolt-ons and tuning, but no headers (I have personal reasons for this, but won't get into it here)
    4. Drive the car to and from the track, no trailers - I also don't want to touch a wrench while I'm there. If it requires anything more than a tire pressure gauge, it's a no-go.

    Have I achieved those goals? I personally feel like I have. The weather was clearly above average for my 10-second passes, but the car has proven many times that it has what it takes to go 10s even in +2,000 DA weather. It's trapped 130 with a DA as high as +2,372 feet, so I feel like #2 can be checked off. The car still has stock exhaust manifolds (and stock mufflers), so check #3 off. And the only tool I had on me at the track was my tire pressure gauge, so you can check #4 off too.

    Others may disagree, but I don't feel like I have anything else to prove at this point. This journey has taken me about 5.5 years from start to finish, and there have been many disappointments along the way. I haven't cracked open the champagne, but that's only because I don't care for it...I'm more of a Dr. Pepper kinda guy. But I can assure you, I'm walking around these days feeling like a massive burden has been lifted off my shoulders...that monkey I've been carrying around on my back was starting to get pretty heavy. I can now go to my grave knowing I was able to drive a stick shift car into the 10s, and there aren't many folks out there that can say the same.
    Last edited by Steve M; 04-30-2022 at 10:24 PM.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 10.86 @ 130.66, 1.68 60' (+1,344 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  25. #100
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    Kudos Steve for your perseverance and practical old School Approach ! I can see this thread being referenced by many to achieve the same 10 second goal . Which is harder than many think.....
    Having played at the Drag Strip over several decades , I have a lot of admiration for your approach and success , Well done !
    Charter Member , SS OHIO


 
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