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  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by 512BB View Post
    Interesting reply, not a single rebuttal to any of the facts that I state about the Vette, but a rant on the issues with Viper??? Give me facts that refute what I am saying and I will change my conclusions.
    The only fact you stated was that there are class action lawsuits related to cooling.
    It's not a fact that "every single one of them with automatic transmission overheats".
    It's not a fact that "the entire product line's components are about as cheap as it gets". (feel free to show some empirical data to demonstrate "components" that are "as cheap as it gets" other than your own subjective assessments.
    It's not a fact that Corvette "reeks of cheap and lazy engineering".

    These are you own biased opinions. And why do I bring up Viper? Because the same stuff you're complaining about afflicts the car in your avatar to at least the same degree. I'll go out on a limb and say more Gen V's have been Lemon-lawed or buybacks on a percentage basis than C7 Z06's.
    S.
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  2. #477
    Enthusiast Terminator02's Avatar
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    Silly debate imo. Is the c8 a shoe in? It is aiming high but will euro car buys here and abroad change up for even a better but American car they have not typically been fond of? Will the average lineman retiring 30 or our country's service men and women be able to go from 55k to around 80k? A full revolution in design and engineering for team Vette so how will QC and the product reliability Be? We have no idea. I'm excited but a bit biased as a mostly all Big 3 buyer my life until now.

    The ZR1 is fast, likely competent and both camps want to represent their car as best. Happens on all forums and it is not like we are not some clownshoe driving self sabotaging drivers on a mission to collide with the nearest Starbucks windows by many outside opinions lol. I get the comparison but when we start talking percentages of incidents and what ifs...it's too personal. Looks like plastic cheap ahit to some and we are driving shoes to others.

  3. #478
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    Randy posted up that the ZR1 beat the ACR lap record at Road Atlanta. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that was during a Motor Trend test day and not representative of the SRT effort with Chris Winkler.
    Very, very fast car.
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  4. #479
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    Still gotta give props to the Viper ACR if the ZR1 can only beat it by .1 second with 100 more hp. That's pretty awesome. ZR1 is still bad as hell too though. I can't wait to see what they do with the mid engine car, I hope it crushes McLaren.

  5. #480
    Enthusiast dewilmoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNU_Physics View Post
    I can't wait to see what they do with the mid engine car, I hope it crushes McLaren.
    While I’d love to see that too, I think that’s a pipe dream. McLaren is only getting better, and at the rate they’re going, I think they’ll become the bar everyone else is measured against.

  6. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNU_Physics View Post
    Still gotta give props to the Viper ACR if the ZR1 can only beat it by .1 second with 100 more hp. That's pretty awesome. ZR1 is still bad as hell too though. I can't wait to see what they do with the mid engine car, I hope it crushes McLaren.
    I think the .1 isn't really representative when that was obtained during a Motor Trend test day compared to Winkler and SRT's record attempts. Apples to apples, I'm sure it's a good bit more than .1. Probably more like 2+ seconds.
    S.
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  7. #482
    Enthusiast slitherv10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorman View Post
    I think the .1 isn't really representative when that was obtained during a Motor Trend test day compared to Winkler and SRT's record attempts. Apples to apples, I'm sure it's a good bit more than .1. Probably more like 2+ seconds.
    S.
    Agreed. I know we are all die hard Viper guys and gals but, the buck has to stop somewhere when a car like the ZR1 arrives with so much more to offer than the Viper. There will be this and many more cars that will surpass the Viper today and tomorrow.
    If you own a Viper only because of its stature, then i can see many Vipers up for sale in the next few years for cheap.
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  8. #483
    Enthusiast uberpube's Avatar
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    2017 SSG ACR SE- 2007 Jeep SRT8 2006 -Dodge SRT-10 QC -1978 Dodge Ramcharger 440 SE -1994 Mazda RX-7 Peripheral port turbo -1987 Mazda RX-7 3 rotor turbo- Dynojet 224 xlc

  9. #484
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    Meaningless. There is no info on what happened during the lap (traffic, weather, mechanical, driver issue).
    It's already known the car is MUCH faster than the C7 Z06 that ran a 7:12.
    S.
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  10. #485
    Enthusiast uberpube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorman View Post
    Meaningless. There is no info on what happened during the lap (traffic, weather, mechanical, driver issue).
    It's already known the car is MUCH faster than the C7 Z06 that ran a 7:12.
    S.
    I'd like to know who is driving, and how long they have been there for. If they were slaying the 'ring, we'd heard about it by now.. But as for no info:
    "After Porsche had their exclusive tracktime, Chevrolet took over the whole Nordschleife for a run or two. Unfortunately, despite the apparently perfect conditions and exclusive track, the Corvette ZR1 failed to improve significantly on the laptime set by its C6-shaped forebear in 2012… which was a 7m19s. Avid carspotters based by T13 clocked the big Chevy at around 7m12s."

    Whether the supercharged V8 had a technical problem, or if the track was somehow compromised in a way not so obvious to observers (localised rain shower on the other side) we might never know. It’s almost certain that Chevy won’t be too bothered to shout about any laptime that starts with a 7 right now.
    2017 SSG ACR SE- 2007 Jeep SRT8 2006 -Dodge SRT-10 QC -1978 Dodge Ramcharger 440 SE -1994 Mazda RX-7 Peripheral port turbo -1987 Mazda RX-7 3 rotor turbo- Dynojet 224 xlc

  11. #486
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    Yes, there is no info on that lap. Observers at one spot on the track can't provide information for a course that is 13 miles long.
    Let's be realistic here. It has over 100 more hp than the Z06. It has several times the negative lift of the Z06. It has substantially improved heat exchange headroom in both the engine and charge cooling systems.
    Do you really believe the car that just beat the ACR-E at both VIR Grand and Road Atlanta (with Pobst wearing jeans, a hybrid and using stock seat belts) is going to run the same Nurburgring times as the C7 Z06? Or the C6 ZR1...which wasn't as fast anywhere as the C7 Z06?
    S.
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  12. #487
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    Awesome achievement!

    Concerned about longevity of ZR1 front tires on a long track like the Ring with even more load on them than the ACR. Could be why initial lap times seem off its expected pace.
    2014 SRT Black TA. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!

  13. #488
    Maybe the Ring just suits Porsches configuration much better, lighter on their front tires? That GT3 RS time is incredible. Stateside stock ACR-E's have an NA problem child on their hands when this one drops.

    As for the ZR1 lap Im not surprised. Just a few laps in. Porsche did lots of testing with the GT2 RS and GT3 RS to achieve those times. Give the ZR1 the same test time and I think we will see a sub 7 min time. I don't think it has enough to come for the GT2 RS however.

  14. #489
    Car and Driver says the Viper is back from the dead. (Lol at the slimy dealers like VE selling the remaining inventory at +70k lol)


    http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2018/...ay-2018-issue/


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  15. #490
    Enthusiast Racingswh's Avatar
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    That new iteration of the GT3 is fast!! I spent a little time in the 991 GT3RS and it was wildly fun but not as quick as the ACR-E when it came to lap times with me driving both cars.

    Jury is still out on the ZR1 reliability I think but it's already proven to be very quick on a road course. In addition for the drag racers an auto ZR1 with 500 miles just went low 10's at 135 mph on drag radials. They obviously make good power.

  16. #491
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    i know this isn't road race times but someone took their new ZR1 to the 1/4 if you haven't seen it yet.

    10.1229 at 135.91

    https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...502-miles.html

  17. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsp300c View Post
    i know this isn't road race times but someone took their new ZR1 to the 1/4 if you haven't seen it yet.

    10.1229 at 135.91

    https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...502-miles.html
    Although that is a quick time (he was on drag radials IIRC), I'm not sure the 136 mph trap speed is in line with 750 hp....maybe some of the guys here that quarter mile their car can extrapolate what a 750 hp car that weighs 3700-ish lbs should trap.

    Also there are so many other variables like air density, track prep, head wind, etc. Anything that touches a 9 second quarter mile even with drag slicks is bloody quick.

  18. #493
    Enthusiast Scott_in_fl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorman View Post
    Yes, there is no info on that lap. Observers at one spot on the track can't provide information for a course that is 13 miles long.
    Let's be realistic here. It has over 100 more hp than the Z06. It has several times the negative lift of the Z06. It has substantially improved heat exchange headroom in both the engine and charge cooling systems.
    Do you really believe the car that just beat the ACR-E at both VIR Grand and Road Atlanta (with Pobst wearing jeans, a hybrid and using stock seat belts) is going to run the same Nurburgring times as the C7 Z06? Or the C6 ZR1...which wasn't as fast anywhere as the C7 Z06?
    S.
    The current Road & Track article says that the downforce target was the Z06 (not more). They needed the large wing to balance the additional air resistance caused by the increased venting in the nose of the car. The article also made it a point to mention that the ZR1 is not a DF car like the ACR.

    If the article is accurate, and if the ZR1 has little to no additional DF over the Z06, then the Ring time may be tough to improve. The Z06 had plenty of power on the Ring, but had a tough time putting the power down out of turns.

    The ZR1 may have newer, stickier rubber by now, and be faster on some of the longer straights, but by how much?

  19. #494
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    even in Probst's motor trend Z06 testing video he said it was oversteery, imagine another 100 hp on top of that now.
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  20. #495
    Enthusiast Scott_in_fl's Avatar
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    ^^^ Yeah, this is the part I just can't get my head around. I owned a '16 Z06 and that car was a handful -- fun, but a handful. Those rears would light up out of any turn. The chassis just does not seem like it can put 650hp down. I can only imagine 755hp. Yes, in a straight line, from 60mph, the new ZR1 no doubt hauls the bacon (or from a stop with DR's, maybe).

    This is what I thought was the amazing thing about the Mac 720S (and apparently the GT2RS) -- they have tons of power, but can make it stick. They have crazy tech that is monitoring hundreds of sensors about 100x every second. The power gets fed only where it is useful, and individual brakes get applied when necessary to help drive the other wheels and to create torque vector steering. It's nuts what they're doing.

    I can't imagine C7 ZR1 being able to have any of those systems. And without them, it's just my old Z06 with more power which was great, but no way could it be the fastest way around a track. That is why I still say that waiting for the C8 is the only real option for a track machine that might be able to hang with the newest that Europe has to offer.

  21. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott_in_fl View Post
    ^^^ Yeah, this is the part I just can't get my head around. I owned a '16 Z06 and that car was a handful -- fun, but a handful. Those rears would light up out of any turn. The chassis just does not seem like it can put 650hp down. I can only imagine 755hp. Yes, in a straight line, from 60mph, the new ZR1 no doubt hauls the bacon (or from a stop with DR's, maybe).

    This is what I thought was the amazing thing about the Mac 720S (and apparently the GT2RS) -- they have tons of power, but can make it stick. They have crazy tech that is monitoring hundreds of sensors about 100x every second. The power gets fed only where it is useful, and individual brakes get applied when necessary to help drive the other wheels and to create torque vector steering. It's nuts what they're doing.

    I can't imagine C7 ZR1 being able to have any of those systems. And without them, it's just my old Z06 with more power which was great, but no way could it be the fastest way around a track. That is why I still say that waiting for the C8 is the only real option for a track machine that might be able to hang with the newest that Europe has to offer.
    The first Gen 5's were a handful.....possible due to bad alignments from the factory, castor being off, etc. And then the ACR-E comes along and everybody is raving on how good it is, how easy it is to drive at the limit, it doesn't feel like it's going to kill you and so on.....and it was way faster on the road course and able to put power out of the corners like no other Viper ever has.

    The C7 Z06 had issues and honestly, I think most of them were low quality control from the factory on a lot of things that make the car twitchy. IMO, the ZR1 will be at a completely other level than the first generation C7 Z06. What I want to know is how todays Z06 is going to compare to the ZR1 on a road course that is not full of long straights. A back to back Laguna Seca run would be very revealing.

    Regarding the C8, has GM every launched a first production year product that didn't have issues? I'd wait a year or two for them to iron the bugs out before I'd spend my money to be their beta tester. You don't want to end up with the worlds most expensive Fiero.

  22. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackAire View Post
    Although that is a quick time (he was on drag radials IIRC), I'm not sure the 136 mph trap speed is in line with 750 hp....maybe some of the guys here that quarter mile their car can extrapolate what a 750 hp car that weighs 3700-ish lbs should trap.

    Also there are so many other variables like air density, track prep, head wind, etc. Anything that touches a 9 second quarter mile even with drag slicks is bloody quick.
    It doesn't weigh 3700#, it weighs 3560, or about ~30# more than the Z06.
    S.
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  23. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorman View Post
    It doesn't weigh 3700#, it weighs 3560, or about ~30# more than the Z06.
    S.
    I was assuming somebody was driving it down the strip, lol. It probably weighs just over 3700 with driver....I was considering its total racing weight for the speed trap vs hp calculation part of the discussion.

  24. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackAire View Post
    I was assuming somebody was driving it down the strip, lol. It probably weighs just over 3700 with driver....I was considering its total racing weight for the speed trap vs hp calculation part of the discussion.
    When you talk about curb weights the driver is not typically (ever) included. And it's doubtful he had a full load of fuel. Even if you want to use 3700#, it's well within the range of 755 hp.
    S.
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  25. #500
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