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  1. #251
    Enthusiast Old School's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil v10 View Post
    I see from picture they do away with hangers, why is that and will it cause vibration ,will check engine light come on due to oxygen sensor being on a 90 degree angle.
    They do away with the hangers when they do away with the flex joints. If the hanger was still there, it would cause the header to crack.

  2. #252
    Supporting Vendor JonB ~ PartsRack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil v10 View Post
    I see from picture they do away with hangers, why is that and will it cause vibration ,will check engine light come on due to oxygen sensor being on a 90 degree angle.

    LESS LIKELY in some years to throw a CEL with these 90-d spacers
    Jon "JonB" Brobst ~~~~:<~ JonB@PartsRack.com


  3. #253
    Enthusiast GTS Dean's Avatar
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    They did away with the expensive OEM flex joint which allows controlled thermal expansion and some torque/vibration absorption. The OEM cats are typically quite heavy relative to HF aftermarket cats. With a flex joint on the manifold end, the engineers needed to support the heavy end from sagging and hitting the rocker sill, so the bar and silicone isolator are provided.
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!

  4. #254
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Anyone know what the power bump is from the cats alone, if any?

  5. #255
    Supporting Vendor JonB ~ PartsRack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    Anyone know what the power bump is from the cats alone, if any?
    Since dynos are 98% accurate, the 2% margin is likely within the power bump. Year Matters. I suspect it is honest to estimate +$10HP

    If it gains 10-15 HP G5 you cannot "prove" 2% on a G5. Most Do it primarily for COOLNESS and better sound as noted in 11 pages.....
    Jon "JonB" Brobst ~~~~:<~ JonB@PartsRack.com


  6. #256
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB ~ PartsRack View Post
    Since dynos are 98% accurate, the 2% margin is likely within the power bump. Year Matters. I suspect it is honest to estimate +$10HP

    If it gains 10-15 HP G5 you cannot "prove" 2% on a G5. Most Do it primarily for COOLNESS and better sound as noted in 11 pages.....
    Oh I understand it's not a huge power adder here. I was just curious. I did it to reduce drone and to reduce heat, in that order. I would do it if it cost 10 hp.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    Anyone know what the power bump is from the cats alone, if any?
    I posted this in another thread but these were my numbers.
    20201107_131630 (1).jpg
    2014 GTS

  8. #258
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    Was hoping someone could explain or shed some light on this strange occurrence. On the way to NVE4, I stalled the car twice consecutively on accident. This then threw a code "P0420 catalyst system efficiency bank 1". I've had this code before driving in the mountains, but I cleared it and it never came back until the drive down to NVE4 (7 months and about 500 miles later).

    What is strange to me is that while at NVE4, the code was always present until I accidentally filled half a tank with 87 octane. I hadn't realized I did this until it was too late... I was so used to the 93/Premium button being on the side this particular station had their 87/Regular button. I figured it'd be fine as long as I don't hammer the car so I just ran it on "eco" mode. Here's the strange part... After filling with half a tank of 87, the P0420 code went away. Upon my next fill-up of 93, the P0420 code returned. So how is this possible? I thought with O2 sensors you usually will have better/cleaner readings with higher octane fuel.
    2014 GTS

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by BSLSK View Post
    Was hoping someone could explain or shed some light on this strange occurrence. On the way to NVE4, I stalled the car twice consecutively on accident. This then threw a code "P0420 catalyst system efficiency bank 1". I've had this code before driving in the mountains, but I cleared it and it never came back until the drive down to NVE4 (7 months and about 500 miles later).

    What is strange to me is that while at NVE4, the code was always present until I accidentally filled half a tank with 87 octane. I hadn't realized I did this until it was too late... I was so used to the 93/Premium button being on the side this particular station had their 87/Regular button. I figured it'd be fine as long as I don't hammer the car so I just ran it on "eco" mode. Here's the strange part... After filling with half a tank of 87, the P0420 code went away. Upon my next fill-up of 93, the P0420 code returned. So how is this possible? I thought with O2 sensors you usually will have better/cleaner readings with higher octane fuel.
    It was likely a coincidence, so I wouldn't think about it too much.

    My experience with that code is that it is generally triggered when you have a combination of long distance, low load, low RPM operation (read: highway driving) coupled with the high flow cats. There's also a drive cycle aspect to it - my first two drives with the high flows didn't throw any codes. In the middle of the third drive, it did. Having low tolerance for lights on the dash, I just turned the code off and never worried about it again.

    Aftermarket cats will never work as well as OEM cats when it comes to scrubbing the exhaust, which is kinda the point - if you want high flow, the catalyst has less time to clean things up as the exhaust is moving through them. OEM cats have to get to something like 8 years/80,000 miles (federally mandated); aftermarket cats do not. Expecting them to function like the OEM cats without some sort of trade-off is expecting too much.

    Personally, I'd never recommend high flows unless you are willing to play the games that go along with them. Sure, there are work-arounds like the spacers you see everyone touting on here, but the underlying issue will always remain.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  10. #260
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    Exhaust droop solution

    I ordered and installed my Belanger/JonB exhaust about a year ago. Sounds great, drone is reduced (went with the stock sized 2.5 inch) and the thermal coating has really made a difference to sill temps.

    Only problem I have had is that the exhaust loosens after a while, resulting in the tip dropping down to rest on the exhaust surround and sometimes even shifting back a bit. I have taken the sideskirts off 5-6 times each side to re-align the exhaust and re-tighten the clamps (whole exhaust shifts, not just the tip clamp). I usually torque those to about 85-90 ft-lbs (seem to raise the torque a bit every time I take them off). Street driving is fine, but all it takes is 1-2 track/lapping days for it to droop. My theory is that because the exhaust is coated, it doesn't expand the same way when heated as the stainless band clamps. The clamps would also retain heat longer, so as the exhaust cools/shrinks, the clamps remain hot/expanded? Any recommendations for solving this?

    Would something like lap joint band clamps (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-681250) be better at keeping everything locked in place?

    Appreciate any insight!

    IMG_20200621_182243.jpg

  11. #261
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    Hello Speed, to avoid this issue I had a local shop weld the tips and joints. Hasn't ever moved since the first install
    2014 SRT Viper GTS
    2005 Ram SRT-10 QC

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedracer View Post
    Only problem I have had is that the exhaust loosens after a while, resulting in the tip dropping down to rest on the exhaust surround and sometimes even shifting back a bit. I have taken the sideskirts off 5-6 times each side to re-align the exhaust and re-tighten the clamps (whole exhaust shifts, not just the tip clamp). I usually torque those to about 85-90 ft-lbs (seem to raise the torque a bit every time I take them off). Street driving is fine, but all it takes is 1-2 track/lapping days for it to droop. My theory is that because the exhaust is coated, it doesn't expand the same way when heated as the stainless band clamps. The clamps would also retain heat longer, so as the exhaust cools/shrinks, the clamps remain hot/expanded? Any recommendations for solving this?

    Would something like lap joint band clamps (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-681250) be better at keeping everything locked in place?
    I had similar issue with connections to the high-flow cat, particularly on just one side on my Gen 2. It didn't matter how tight I clamped, or cut relief slots in, it still wanted to come loose. I just added a couple of small tack welds and solved that issue.
    Jim

  13. #263
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    As has already been stated, it is a known issue, and tack welds are the answer.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  14. #264
    Enthusiast sambo32's Avatar
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    I use a small sheet metal screw, and put it through the clamp, which went through the tips.
    2009 coupe - victim of Hurricane Sandy, 2013 Track Pack (Sold), TA #93 (Sold)
    2015 Billet silver SRT (Sold), 2009 coupe yellow with silver stripes
    2016 Ram Rebel white

  15. #265
    I'm about to get the exact same setup, 2.5" with jet black coating. Which spot needs to be tack welded? And is this something that can be done straight from belanger before they send it to me?

  16. #266
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    Thanks for the insight! Was hoping to find a solution that didn't involve welds...but it sounds like that's the only way. Would the thermal coating pose a problem for doing tack welds? I am assuming you need to grind it off the areas around the weld
    Last edited by Speedracer; 07-17-2021 at 02:08 PM.

  17. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostrocket View Post
    I'm about to get the exact same setup, 2.5" with jet black coating. Which spot needs to be tack welded? And is this something that can be done straight from belanger before they send it to me?
    Has to be done on the car once you've made all adjustments, making sure everything is exactly where you want it.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  18. #268
    Enthusiast Hawk's Avatar
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    Try a SS pop rivet
    2014 TA orange #55

  19. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB ~ PartsRack View Post
    Nice of you to share time and effort. Thanks. Your testing bears out ours....

    True Tidbit: Grandpa in CA drives Viper to see daughter and granddaughter age 3-4.

    Girl hears Viper, runs out to see Grampie.

    Grampie a bit slow getting out, so Girl tries to climb up into his lap.

    Girl gets burned reddish on Viper Sidesill, crying ensues.

    Daughter and Grandaughter now scared of Viper, banning it from their house.....

    Sad Grampa buys our HiFlow Cats. Claims his sills are now "No Hotter Than A Fresh Tortilla"

    Viper ban lifted..... Grampa and Car welcome..... girl still scared a bit, stands back. "Once Burned...."
    Brings a tear to the eye. Great story, can't wait for the sequel.

  20. #270
    Enthusiast FrgMstr's Avatar
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    I did V-bands on mine. Had that connection fabbed to the headers. Allows for easy swap out between cats/catbacks and straight pipes for race days. Can do the whole change out in less than 2 hours. Welding ain't pretty, but it does not leak. The V-band locks in tight enough that it will not droop.

    StraightPipeVBand.jpg

    CorsaWithRandomTechCat.jpg

    I am about to pull the Belanger headers and go AMR. Let me know if you have set.

    This is with cats and catbacks.

    Last edited by FrgMstr; 07-24-2021 at 01:44 AM.
    As long as it is not yellow.

  21. #271
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    I recently installed a set of JonB hi-flow cats and extremely satisfied with them. Cooler side sills was my main reason to get it.. But unfortunately i guess im one of the very few 2015 that has a CEL.. yes i do have the o2 spacers on.. i cleared it twice with a scan tool.. I see that Arrow PCM will clear the CEL.. i was wondering if the HP tuner will clear it?

  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke_409 View Post
    I recently installed a set of JonB hi-flow cats and extremely satisfied with them. Cooler side sills was my main reason to get it.. But unfortunately i guess im one of the very few 2015 that has a CEL.. yes i do have the o2 spacers on.. i cleared it twice with a scan tool.. I see that Arrow PCM will clear the CEL.. i was wondering if the HP tuner will clear it?
    Yes, it will.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  23. #273
    I also ordered the 2.5" system directly from Belanger and noticed that the midpipe starts as a 3" then drops down to 2.5" after the cat, goes into the muffler as 2.5" and comes out as 3" to the tip. Is that how the 2.5" system is supposed to work? I thought the entire system would just be a straight 2.5".

    EDIT: Just spoke with Lou - the system is designed this way due to the Venturi effect. It actually increases velocity through the system by creating that restriction. Greatly enjoyed my conversation with him - he really knows his stuff.
    Last edited by frostrocket; 09-16-2021 at 08:46 PM.

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostrocket View Post
    EDIT: Just spoke with Lou - the system is designed this way due to the Venturi effect. It actually increases velocity through the system by creating that restriction. Greatly enjoyed my conversation with him - he really knows his stuff.
    He's blast to chat with...easily an hour phone call with him, LOL.
    2016 ACR "ACR Steve White" by Woodhouse
    2001 RT/10 Greg Good Heads+Built Engine+Cam+Ported Intake and other goodies


 
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