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  1. #101
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    Agree with Policy , not because of anything other than the tons of calls I still get , and I am sure it is the same at Roanoke and Tomball...........and I am semi working now! We are a small community here, and many folks are unaware of this valuable Forum and Club, but there is plenty of information out there to find Viper Dealers. The comments I get , and I am sure other Dealers receive , often can tell us more about a market than one might receive from a knowledgeable owner base? Most folks that call now want a Viper and to a degree , they even need some educating. Their perception is this is a car they need to have whether to collect, track or yes , invest in?
    Concierge Coordinator for Luxury and Performance Vehicles within the Woodhouse Auto Family ( now 19 Stores )

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Pemberton View Post
    The steel rotors ,which meant an 18 inch TA rim would fit and folks had tons of choices of tires , hence were not subject to an odd sized, one brand rubber donut were always part of the plan. Plus owners was not subject to the crazy, constant measurements and high end pads the Ceramic Rotors demand. Take the Laguna Record Holder TA, marry it to the new record holder ACR-E, and the two best Vipers to conquer Laguna Seca were merged. I am sure conversations will continue , just like with other unique Vipers, but since it met my goal of the least expensive " Limited Edition," ACR-E , by having an MSRP under 130K ( even with the custom car cover), I am pretty satisfied with my legacy concerning this Snake. I know what had to occur with Dodge for them to build this, I know what was done by them to help make this car special and I know the response I got from several Dodge Executives. Though , I will agree it may not be the most valuable Viper, because simple numbers suggest the Viper with the lowest production number and it's own factory code could quite likely be more valuable --- the 20 ACR Convertibles!
    Bill....you'll will never get the car salesman out of your blood that's for sure. How else can you explain that when it's a Woodhouse car..less is more? For a decade Viper owners have clamored for CCB's on the top end cars like the ZR1. Finally........Dodge puts them on their top end race car and now you're framing it as a negative feature? It's hardly a negative since 95% of the ACR-E's made will never see the track, it's quite a positive. They will last forever on the street, make zero brake dust and stop like nothing else. So order ten cars in a specific color with a cheaper cloth interior and no CCB's, number them a voila......instant collectable. They were a cheaper sorta ACR-E it's not a wonder they sold out and after all....only ten.

    I'm not knocking them I think they look great but lets not pretend it is what it's not. And regarding the 2010 ACR convertibles they are nowhere near the kind of numbers that the ACR-E's are bringing, you know that because you have reached out and tried to buy one back and I know what you and others have offered. What a coincidence the most valuable cars are going to be Woodhouse cars?
    Last edited by ViperJon; 18 Hours Ago at 04:28 PM.

  3. #103
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    A lot of the serious track rats don't want CCBs, and often change them out for iron rotors, including ACR-E owners and Porsche owners. I regularly track with ACR-E owners and Woodhouse definitely spec'd it well with iron rotors and 18" front wheels with some tire options. Whether that is good or bad for long term value can be debated, but their knowledge of motorsports showed in the spec.
    2014 SRT Black TA. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!

  4. #104
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    Jon, fully agree folks clamored for CCBs for years, but have tracked for 38 years and we went after the serious track rat buyer that Bruce H. brought up, for the exact reasons he mentioned. Saw plenty of examples of switching to steel at the track and you have to wonder why a Brake Company that was on our Forum was touting the fact that it would was working on steel rotors for the cars? We also knew the problems of a one make tire choice and we liked the idea one did not have to worry in the future that no tires could be found to fit the front without spending a nice sum buying a high end set of rims ---- whereas 18 inchTA rims were plentiful. The cheap seats ,as you call the, were in homage to part of it's heritage , the TA, along with the color and brakes. The whole idea was a light ACR-E for severe track rats , small market we thought , so no argument , and not making the CCBs a negative , but those that race a lot know there are limitations. We sold quite a few TAs, only 20 Convertible ACRs, and numerous other low produced limited models , but nothing sold out this fast!!! It was designed for a smaller niche in an already interesting niche market , but it hit a chord. I did not agree with Scott that is might be the most valuable Viper , and I threw in the concept of the ACR Convertible as I was only repeating personal remarks from a couple of folks at Dodge - it seemed a perfect tongue in cheek comment to make. Recently this 107-112K car has been selling for 145k+, so sure less money , but also less cost. Not sure why you are so negative, sounds like you would be happy ACRs are doing well , since you have a Woodhouse Viper yourself, ha.

    All in all the cars done for Roanoke, Tomball and Woodhouse, will likely resound with knowledgeable Viper owners ,as each Dealer did something special or different over the years, with the assistance of Dodge and SRT -------not many vehicles can name this type of collaboration between Manufacturer and Dealers since the muscle car era of the 60s and early 70s.

    As noted, passion for this machine, discourse and more, will likely only benefit all owners , as like Politics or Religion, no one ever agrees with everything. I hope the passion continues for years to come , as I think it is like Policy Limits suggests ------- the price will continue to rise, because as we all know perception is the true reality concerning the automotive culture!
    Concierge Coordinator for Luxury and Performance Vehicles within the Woodhouse Auto Family ( now 19 Stores )

  5. #105
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    Understand your opinion, I just went after the serious Road Course pilots since we were seeing more owners wanting this machine to track than in years past. Sure it may have only been 20-25% who wanted to track the beast , but you were right, in the past only about 5-10% would. That is part of what is fun about the Viper Rendezvous, as a bunch of the Snakes slithering there are ACRs. Have a nice evening and stay passionate, as it is kind of remarkable how this remarkable machine can bring about such a gamut of emotions from its owners?!
    Concierge Coordinator for Luxury and Performance Vehicles within the Woodhouse Auto Family ( now 19 Stores )

  6. #106
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    Bill, one easy question for you that keeps getting avoided:

    Who put the TA badge on your ACR/TAs? Woodhouse or the factory?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    Bill, one easy question for you that keeps getting avoided:

    Who put the TA badge on your ACR/TAs? Woodhouse or the factory?

    2014 Stryker Green GTS Viper (every option!) all carbon fiber interior and TA exterior 2014 White Range Rover Full size (wife) 2005Nissan Xterra Off-road

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice of Reason View Post
    Bill, one easy question for you that keeps getting avoided:

    Who put the TA badge on your ACR/TAs? Woodhouse or the factory?
    I thought the factory put that badge on. If it didn’t, then as stated above, it’s an ACR-E with iron brakes. Only stickers from the factory make cars special
    1992 RT/10 - The One & Only FIRST
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  9. #109
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    One has to view these comments and not laugh at the complete absurdity. The ACR/TA was thought up to celebrate two Laguna Seca track record siblings, yet getting Dodge to build the car and use the TA options , including blocking the paint for others to use, numbering the car ,etc. was monumental , and like many other projects, those who have no idea of the complexity come up with funny little items to try and negate a process , since they really know nothing about the scope of these endeavors. We supplied nothing but the concept and nothing will stop the funny little conspiracy theorists out there. I will likely let those stir the pot for years to come , as there is even more to the story ( all good) , but due to the fact that some of the individuals involved may still be employed with a major Manufacturer I will still be discreet until one day when it matters little. Regardless of this silly question , the absurdity that the placement of decal made by the factory invalidates a car is so hilarious, but it is also a bit fun to see folks get worked up.

    I may be a complete fool, by I am an old fool, and ethics in my book mean you do not divulge things when they involve others who have assisted you in an project ,especially when they wish to remain unknown. I have intimated at other times , that there is more to the original TA story than many know, but again , it is not something I will divulge until it no longer matters either. Neither I nor Woodhouse have ever leaked a secret given us by Dodge, nor do I intend to now ( I am also not nave enough to think we are the only Dealership given information or help at times ), though even I look forward to the day some fun revelations will be brought forth.

    Maybe my older age is making me way too mellow, but I see no need to answer questions that will involve even more intrigue, since I know in the balance it has absolutely no concern, but I will always protect those I gave my word too, and if that means we listen to the meanderings of folks who think they have beef about a trivial situation , so be it. The reality is some extremely well known FCA folks think the car was a brilliant stroke from Woodhouse, and that is way more important to us than anything.

    I promised FCA/SRT the same thing I did with the ACR Convertible , that even though we had an extremely special car no one else would have, we would not charge a dime over MSRP ( many buyers expected us to since we had the only game in town), so they all sold with the price on the window sticker. Demons were done the same, by the way. The magnitude of a Manufacturer working with their top Dealers ( Roanoke, Tomball, Woodhouse ), as I mentioned before , is unprecedented since the 60/70s, and I will continue to operate on the premise if they want things kept quiet and discreet I will follow those instructions. I am sure there are many things Roanoke and Tomball have in their pocket concerning projects with Dodge and they seem to be keeping a similar stance.

    So, damn , as usual I am windy, but conspiracy theorists keep it coming, because I even see all this silly controversy as another building of the mystique , rumors , passion, etc. of the Viper and it's various models.

    I am sure you will find my " No Answer," not justifiable, but then my loyalty is to long term friends and colleagues and that is important to me.
    Concierge Coordinator for Luxury and Performance Vehicles within the Woodhouse Auto Family ( now 19 Stores )

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperJon View Post
    Policy Limits disappears for six months and yet gets one whiff of a "future value" thread and he's back posting like Dear Abby.
    Funny Jon, I was thinking the same thing!! BTW it was nice weather this week for the press days at the NY show.


    Amazing #'s on those two Vipers! I've been watching the Viper market since '92 when I worked at Chrysler Financial and have seen everything from crazy prices on the '92's to the low's of $10k dealer cash twice and hearing/seeing 20 plus of new VOI-9 cars offered or auctioned by dodge at 25K below invoice. I didn't see this coming and thought the traditional viper deprecation curve would remain on the G5 ACR's.

    Those 3 BJ sales aren't reflective of the total market but they do make a very positive statement. I believe the future market for these vipers is going to go in two directions, 100 mile cars will continue to appreciate but 5k cars are going to stall or decline slightly as new products such as the mid-engine vette is going to take the garage space of some current owners and creating more supply then the used car market can absorb at the current prices. Will be interesting to see how the market moves!
    1994 Red/Tan RT/10, '99 red ACR- sold, '06 Red/Silver Coupe-RIP, '06 Red/Silver Coupe - Sold, '08 Red/Silver ACR-C sold, 2006 Comp Coupe C-92

  11. #111
    Regarding the ‘sticker’ argument. I am not very knowledgeable with classic muscle car details, but who installed the decal packages on the 60’s and 70’ dealer special builds that are now so valuable ? I can’t imagine it was done at the factory level but I may be wrong

    Interesting thread for sure. While value always stirs up a heated conversation, most of us here do own one of these cars and should ultimately appreciate any increase in monies paid for one of them as it will affect the market down the road (more or less)

  12. #112
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    Ok.....so who installed the TA sticker on the ACR TA? Factory, or Woodhouse? I just looked on the window sticker and the only mention of "TA" is as to the interior package. Also, as far as being a numbered car, one could get anything they wanted on the dash plaque just like the Gerry Wood Editions. Not taking anything away from this car, as I think it is stunning, but why not juts say who put the TA decal on? I'm sure there was a lot of thought that went into the car and it was a pretty stand up thing to sell them at MSRP along with your Demons, but fill us in on the stickers already. I always thought it was the factory, but it doesn't appear to be so.
    1992 RT/10 - The One & Only FIRST
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    2017 GTS-R - The Most Amazing and The Last

  13. #113
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    As noted ACRSNK , I know all about this car, ( designed and developed every aspect ) and you guys can postulate all you want, as it makes no difference. Come up with your own ideas , but Dodge made the plaques and had to approve the entire model, and build. I am not going to answer any further , as I mentioned, folks were involved and I was asked to keep quiet on some matters. I will state once more , Dodge approved the entire package, the badging says Woodhouse ACR/TA , so come to your own conclusions , I will respect promises till they no longer matter.

    What I will continue to find extremely funny is how folks who have no real idea how extremely difficult it is to get Dodge or any Manufacturer to do a Dealer derived special model. Due to an addtional underlying story with this car, some additional things will be left unanswered for some time till I am given an okay to discuss. Regardless , I will rest easy on my laurels knowing what a couple of individuals at FCA think of this representation of the Laguna Seca record holding Snakes.
    Concierge Coordinator for Luxury and Performance Vehicles within the Woodhouse Auto Family ( now 19 Stores )


 
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