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  1. #51
    VOA Mamba Member
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    LifeIsGood's Avatar
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    Me thinks JonB missed his medication today...or as he's known to do...stir a pot that isn't even cooking.
    2001 VRY RT/10

  2. #52
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    I wasn

    Edit: I hate the bug with apostrophes . I am not retyping what I said because it was lengthy, but cliff notes: the CFL region communication is practically nonexistent. I only renewed this year for NVE4 and do not plan to renew next year.
    Last edited by 98intrigue; 02-05-2020 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Apostrophe bug
    Ryan - 14 Stryker Green Nth Moto Heads/Cam
    Past - 14 Stryker Green VE Stage II Heads/Cam, '16 ACR-E, '14 Anodized Carbon, '14 TA, Orange '03 Paxton vert w/coupe rear, Black '06 coupe w/SSG accents

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98intrigue View Post
    I wasn

    Edit: I hate the bug with apostrophes . I am not retyping what I said because it was lengthy, but cliff notes: the CFL region communication is practically nonexistent. I only renewed this year for NVE4 and do not plan to renew next year.
    And that is disappointing to hear.
    '01 Sapphire RT/10. '08 Snakeskin Green Vert. "H" spokes, Grey/Black interior, Graphite bezels, NAV, Full Belanger exhaust w/ Hi-Flows, ARROW PCM and Quaife rear end with 3.55's. http://www.westernreservevipers.com

  4. #54
    Beth Sewell
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98intrigue View Post
    I wasn

    Edit: I hate the bug with apostrophes . I am not retyping what I said because it was lengthy, but cliff notes: the CFL region communication is practically nonexistent. I only renewed this year for NVE4 and do not plan to renew next year.
    Alex M. told me recently he does not have the time to put into your region and is looking for help. Perhaps you could consider pitching in and re-energizing the CFL region rather than throwing in the towel and walking away. The club is comprised of members who help put events together and enjoy each other's company.
    '08 Venom Red Roadster with ACR aero
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  5. #55
    VOA Member
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    Illinois (IL/WI & Other)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACR-ISH View Post
    Most of what you said you'd like to see is in several issues, lol. Maybe try reading cover to cover. Tech tips, common problems... pretty much all in there. If they put it ALL in ONE magazine issue, why do any others? It's all about a magazine that has a little something for EVERYONE. I'm sure many of us enjoy seeing what other club members are doing, and leaving something for the next issue. I love the fluff. We do some BEAUTIFUL outings and get togethers!

    My theme is still resounding: It's not about you.

    I guess it takes a while for that to sink in.
    You are entitled to your opinion but that does not mean that you can criticize mine. I am a realist, and the good old days of a car being supported are gone. When I get the magazine, I look briefly through it...and I never bother again. There is no more dealer support, and the factory could give a rats ass about anyone who bought a Viper because they are done with it. So to me an organization that solely exists because of the car should realize that we are on our own now has a responsibility to start stepping up to help the members who own the cars versus what has been going on with nothing but fluff about club rides.

    If you bought a Viper to make friends then that is your prerogative. This magazine should have articles about what the future holds for part availability. I know for a fact that there are dealers that are gouging on parts right now because the factory or vendors could care less about availability. Why are there no articles about this? Instead there are articles about vineyards and club rides which does NOTHING for being an owner for a car that is no longer made. Do you know that there are dealers who used to take pride in selling the Viper that are now charging $400 over the factory price (which is already too much) because they know they are the only one who has the part?

    Why are there no articles about how to set up for the track? Race results were Vipers are being raced? Problems to look out for the cars that could have a part problem down the road because FCA bailed on us, and what the possible options are now. You don't have to like my take on things as to me there is a great disservice when 90% of a magazine is fluff when there are more important issues that the VOA should be helping with for the membership.

    I do not need to be lectured about what you like, and because I do not like the same things you do in a car specific magazine that I am partially paying for that I am wrong. I am not a nut swinger so trying to belittle someone for pointing out that there is a need for improvements that would benefit the every member is petty. I get NOTHING from seeing car club events, I have the right to have that opinion, and there is a need for the magazine to step it up for being informative. The boat is being missed on so many levels with the VOA.

    Maybe that will take a little time to sink in for some.

  6. #56
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    Frankly , somewhere along the line we have forgotten what the Club was designed for and like society today we seem to spend more time complaining about things instead of relishing in the positives . We have a vehicle that is no longer made , but thanks to the VOA we do have a place that is an unreal repository for information going back to the beginning of the build. Though some of us do not have access to as many activities as others, the one thing we all have at our access is a Bible of Information from both the archives or from folks who have owned the machines for a very long time. I for one do not want to lose that , and with many vehicles that are no longer made , the core group who decided to band together with their common interest helped keep their specific marquees alive. Somewhere along the line we , as owners, need to decide if we want to help continue the legacy, we want to help contribute ( whether on the Forum, within our Region, with the Magazine, with Technical help, or even on a National Level ) because there are not that many Vipers ever made and the reality is we , as owners , need the Club way more than we realize. I would challenge folks who are enthusiasts , and somewhat sitting on the sidelines , to explain why they enjoy the Forum, like getting help and information, yet do not feel some sort of obligation to help this Club continue to grow and sustain. I admit I am from the " Old School." of there is no such thing as " Free Lunch," but surprisingly I hear folks comment on their right ( or entitlement ) to the Club and Forum, when they are the very ones complaining about so much entitlement in our Country today. Sure I will get flamed , as I do think it would be quite beneficial to have the bulk of the Forum just for Members , because even if they only pay to belong that is actually contributing. There could be a section open for " Enthusiast," but it probably is time to enforce the rules folks actually agree to when they sign in. Belonging to quite a few Forums, most of the ones that are successful have decided since they are places to help folks and have a good natured time, the constant pulse of negativism is a door that is shut and not opened for those who just come in to raise a ruckus.

    If you are an enthusiast , but own a Viper, as I mentioned earlier, be selfish for yourself, this is your Tech Manual, your accessory manual, and yes, your Social Club, so join so it is there when you need it!!


    Thanks to all the sponsors who not only continue to make products for a vehicle out of production, but who often still give discounts to VOA members.
    Concierge Coordinator for Luxury and Performance Vehicles within the Woodhouse Auto Family ( now 18 Stores ) Yep, I am still working , ha,ha!!

  7. #57
    As someone who has not yet made the leap to join, I have been watching this thread to see what people are saying and finally decided to comment and choose my words carefully. Honestly for me, its mainly due to the lack of people in my area who are actively involved with the VOA. I know the NC/SC club is fairly active, however most of their events are 3+ hours from me and going that distance just to have lunch, dinner, tune the car, etc. is undesirable. I do plan to join them for a couple of events later in the year up in the mountains or a track day if they plan one. I must say that when I bought my '16 last year I emailed the local leader and got no response which was disconcerting. With that said, if the VOA was able to use their resources (assuming that exists) and locate other Viper owners in my area I would be interested in getting more involved. Until then, I'd like to physically meet and get to know some of the people who are part of this region's club before committing to join. I've been a part of other organizations like this in the past and some were worth the money/effort.... others were not. It's 100% dependent on the people in the group for me and not all personalities mesh. So in short, its a wait and see scenario at this point.
    Blake

    2016 1 of 1 Viper GTC Prefix 9.0 Stroker Stage 2 Arrow

  8. #58
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    Sounds like someone in NC/SC needs to reach out, and one thing about the Club is if you are going to a track event often good to post to see if other members are going also? I am often surprised ( on another Forum ) how posting about where some of us are attending , we end up meeting a bunch of other members at the track ( or other function).

    With a killer 9.0 Liter , though , joining the Club gives you access to others with the engine or who did a lot of the motors ( Woodhouse, Tomball, Roanoke ) and extra Tech data or just routine info becomes more available - just a thought.
    Last edited by Bill Pemberton; 02-06-2020 at 09:01 AM.
    Concierge Coordinator for Luxury and Performance Vehicles within the Woodhouse Auto Family ( now 18 Stores ) Yep, I am still working , ha,ha!!

  9. #59
    VOA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by braunstein82 View Post
    Money aside. When I first bought a viper I only planned to keep it a short time then move to a different kind of car and repeat that. I sold the first viper and my wife said she wanted me to get another viper because she loved the club and the close friendships we have made. Ones that I would retain even if I left viper. So it wasn't hard for me to agree with her. Now on viper #3. Most people who know me will tell you I always say I'm gonna sell this one and get a different type of car, but in all reality they and I know I'll be in a viper for life.
    You come for the car, you stay for the people.

    This clearly is not the only channel for people to make friends. But just like any others, it is tough to leave once you've spent time with like minded people interested in doing the same stuff.

    VOA, for what it is today, with the car itself no longer in production, is a great asset. With dealers not helping or stacking up on parts to sell at 500% profit, imagine where you'd go if there was no VOA. The resources available here are priceless.

    I see both sides of the argument. Having an active member group is quite important. Lucky for me, the last 15 years of ownership have been in IL and now in AZ, both very active clubs thanks to the members who help organize and spend their personal time into planning things.

    A
    A few words of CAUTION to those who think
    a VIPER looks MEAN, ARROGANT and HOSTILE...
    CUT OUT THE FLATTERY!

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Pemberton View Post
    Sounds like someone in NC/SC needs to reach out, and one thing about the Club is if you are going to a track event often good to post to see if other members are going also. I am often surprised ( on another Forum ) how posting about where some of us are attending , we end up meeting a bunch of other members at the track ( or other function)

    With a killer 9.0 Liter , though , joining the Club gives you access to others with the engine or who did a lot of the motors ( Woodhouse, Tomball, Roanoke ) and extra Tech data or just routine info becomes more available - just a thought.
    I actually posted earlier this week for a Track Night in America event which is one of the easiest ways for people to get on track and great for all levels of experience. I got one comment so far with no expressed interest. Pretty disappointing.... As for my 9.0 Liter, my friends at Prefix who built the motor have provided all the guidance I require and more. Please don't misunderstand my comments as bashing the NC/SC crowd. I'm just sharing my experience thus far.
    Blake

    2016 1 of 1 Viper GTC Prefix 9.0 Stroker Stage 2 Arrow

  11. #61
    Regional President
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    Have to say I agree with Angleiron on the Magazine front, all the adverts for other Dodge vehicles don't interest me one bit.

    Magazine should be about the Viper Period.

    You could probably fill half a magazine talking to the guys that do track days. The Tech question and answers page is not that great.
    Tech pages on how the cars were actually assembled in the factory would be good.

    What is the deal with paint now on the earlier models being as Celouse products are not being used. Bubbling paintwork between Gel coat and Primer.
    What to use and what Not to use.

    Is the Club involved in contacting suppliers to procure orders of obsolete parts. Windscreens for the Early cars as an example.

    Tech stuff like how to use a code reader and scan tool.

    I know there are some pages with a How to Guide, but there really could be much more.

    Nitrous? Who has it what's the set up for a stock road car?

    This is just some of the things I can think of off the top of my head.

    What problems have owners run into?

    Have to say the last issue of the magazine I got, I too flicked through it and put it on the shelve.

    I know it comes down to members submitting articles, But I do see the magazine strongly aligned with Dodge (advertising etc) where Personally I want it to be Just about Vipers and be our Club magazine, not a glossy international award winning blah blah blah

    If this rattles any feathers then Sorry, but if you don't get feedback then nothing will change.
    Last edited by Fatboy 18; 02-06-2020 at 08:42 AM.

  12. #62
    VOA Mamba Member
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    The drama and smugness in thread is a major reason why people don't sign up for membership. You drama queen assholes do a great job keeping members away. Good work.
    2016 ACR "ACR Steve White" by Woodhouse
    2001 RT/10 Greg Good Heads+Built Engine+Cam+Ported Intake and other goodies

  13. #63
    This post is not intended to knock the club or those that choose to become members. Just my take on the whole membership idea

    I was a member of VCA when I got my first Viper. When 'the war' ensued, I joined VOA early on as the one thing I can not tolerate as being part of my hobbies/passions is politics

    So I was a paying member for a couple of years. I live in an area far away from any concentration of Vipers. That said, even if I was closer, I am not a 'clubber'. While I am very passionate about my Vipers (as well as cars and bikes in general), I have no interest in the social aspect of it. I will never attend a national event, even if it was close to home. You can tell me all about how awesome it is.......I have zero interest. I have met a few other Viper owners but they have not changed my opinion about the cars and have not made me feel like I need to seek out more like minded owners

    When I was a member, I got the magazine of course. This, as has been mentioned above, was for me a quick flip through with very little content. A lot of money spent on glossy paper but no reason whatsoever to hold on to for a reference down the road (many publications are). I even let it be known on this forum that if anyone (non member) wanted the magazines I got, I would mail them forward to anyone interested.

    As far as the trinkets you get when signing up, the Batman club (I am not a member of this either) probably offers some similar stuff and they represent no value to me.

    While I definitely think that there is a value to having a forum so people can share experiences, especially technical, I do not believe that there has to be a 'club' or a need to pay in to a pool to make that possible. I visit and am involved with several on-line forums and some very powerful (solid cores with tons of data from many years past) platforms. No member ships needed. The income this club needs to sustain its existence is questionable to me. If you want to produce a magazine, then let people and sponsors pay for it. If you want to have a national event, let people and sponsors pay for it. If its not financially viable, then don't do it

    If you want this club to grow, my suggestion would be to open up the door to non owners. Plenty of people out there that would want to be part and the fact that you 'have' to have a Vin to join, reminds me a bit of the Hollywood elite entitlement BS. You could certainly brand the non owners but do allow them to join. You want money.....let those that are willing pay you. You may not have the luxury to turn them down just so you can stay exclusive

    The fact that the Viper is no longer produced will most likely affect the existing clubs over time but some of the forums I visit support cars and bikes that have been out of production for 40-50-60 years now. Still plenty of activity and I really don't think the passion for the Viper will go away as there will always be a core that is interested in keeping them alive.

    Again, this is just my some feedback from the other side of the membership argument
    Last edited by commandomatt; 02-06-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperNC View Post
    As someone who has not yet made the leap to join, I have been watching this thread to see what people are saying and finally decided to comment and choose my words carefully. Honestly for me, its mainly due to the lack of people in my area who are actively involved with the VOA. I know the NC/SC club is fairly active, however most of their events are 3+ hours from me and going that distance just to have lunch, dinner, tune the car, etc. is undesirable. I do plan to join them for a couple of events later in the year up in the mountains or a track day if they plan one. I must say that when I bought my '16 last year I emailed the local leader and got no response which was disconcerting. With that said, if the VOA was able to use their resources (assuming that exists) and locate other Viper owners in my area I would be interested in getting more involved. Until then, I'd like to physically meet and get to know some of the people who are part of this region's club before committing to join. I've been a part of other organizations like this in the past and some were worth the money/effort.... others were not. It's 100% dependent on the people in the group for me and not all personalities mesh. So in short, its a wait and see scenario at this point.

    Blake, can you me PM me the name of the local leader you reached out to? I'm not sure who you're talking about as I've helped organize things in our area a few times over the years. If it's me, I apologize as I don't recall ever seeing a message from you. I'm not too far from you IIRC from another thread, and I know nearly every Viper owner in our "area", or at least the ones who have come out to different events I've been a part of over the years - VOA club events, Cars and Coffee, etc.

    There is definitely interest from some club members in a track event as it comes up from time to time. As for your thread not receiving much attention, that goes back to what I was referring to earlier - unfortunately the forums aren't quite as busy as they used to be even in our active region. As much as I despise Facebook and similar, that's where people are - and thus, have to keep an eye out there as well. The thread likely wasn't seen by a large number of members.
    - Patrick (VOA Carolinas Region)
    2000 Viper RT/10 (Steel Gray)
    2006 Viper SRT10 (VOI9 Edition)

  15. #65
    Angleiron, Fatboy & commandomatt have some great comments. IMO, the club has continued to move away from the car and more to the regions that are active. The magazine as it is now (and has been for some time) is a waste of money and is one of the reasons I am not intersted in continuing the membership. I could care less if the magazine is "award winning" or is more aesthetically pleasing than the Dupont Registry. It takes me 30 seconds to scan through the more recent issues to see what (if anything) is interesting and then it goes in the trash. I'll admit there are even some issues that went into the junk-mail pile without even opening the envelope.

    The Viper is an icon and given that the car is no longer being produced the legacy does need to be preserved. I also understand that the Gen V guys (and to some extent Gen IV) don't have the same issues/concerns as Gen I-III guys. Earlier Gen owners are worried about parts, service, etc. Later Gen owners just don't have those concerns (yet).

    If the club wants to cater to the later model Vipers and provide support to those active regions that is for club leadership to decide. That doesn't mean that the rest of us will line up like lemmings to continue to fund something we get little to no benefit from. Most of us that have been around for a while already know Jon B, Steve-Indy, Alex, Tom, Bob, Herb, etc. We don't need "the club" to introduce us to them as they have been "one of us" for a long time. They are all GREAT car guys and have a passion to support the Viper. To suggest they somehow "belong" to the club is an insult to them and the thousands of Viper owners who don't belong to the club. Call Jon or Steve-Indy and they'll regale you with tales and Viper knowledge because they care, not because you belong to the club. Interestingly, those two have probably done more to support the Viper history/legacy than the club has. I know there are others like Jon/Steve and I don't mean to slight them in any way.

    Just my opinions. Nobody has to agree with me and I don't care if you do/don't. I'll be happy to rejoin and contribute $'s should things change. I love the car and hope someday it becomes as revered and respected as a '71 Hemi Cuda convertible, a Fort GT or similar.

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickB View Post
    Blake, can you me PM me the name of the local leader you reached out to? I'm not sure who you're talking about as I've helped organize things in our area a few times over the years. If it's me, I apologize as I don't recall ever seeing a message from you. I'm not too far from you IIRC from another thread, and I know nearly every Viper owner in our "area", or at least the ones who have come out to different events I've been a part of over the years - VOA club events, Cars and Coffee, etc.

    There is definitely interest from some club members in a track event as it comes up from time to time. As for your thread not receiving much attention, that goes back to what I was referring to earlier - unfortunately the forums aren't quite as busy as they used to be even in our active region. As much as I despise Facebook and similar, that's where people are - and thus, have to keep an eye out there as well. The thread likely wasn't seen by a large number of members.
    PM sent. Wasn't you. Not looking to create a big issue so lets keep that on the down low. Thanks.
    Blake

    2016 1 of 1 Viper GTC Prefix 9.0 Stroker Stage 2 Arrow

  17. #67
    Enthusiast Lost me beer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandomatt View Post
    This post is not intended to knock the club or those that choose to become members. Just my take on the whole membership idea

    I was a member of VCA when I got my first Viper. When 'the war' ensued, I joined VOA early on as the one thing I can not tolerate as being part of my hobbies/passions is politics

    So I was a paying member for a couple of years. I live in an area far away from any concentration of Vipers. That said, even if I was closer, I am not a 'clubber'. While I am very passionate about my Vipers (as well as cars and bikes in general), I have no interest in the social aspect of it. I will never attend a national event, even if it was close to home. You can tell me all about how awesome it is.......I have zero interest. I have met a few other Viper owners but they have not changed my opinion about the cars and have not made me feel like I need to seek out more like minded owners

    When I was a member, I got the magazine of course. This, as has been mentioned above, was for me a quick flip through with very little content. A lot of money spent on glossy paper but no reason whatsoever to hold on to for a reference reason (many publications are). I even let it be known on this forum that if anyone (non member) wanted the magazines I got, I would mail them forward to anyone interested.

    As far as the trinkets you get when signing up, the Batman club (I am not a member of this either) probably offers some similar stuff and they represent no value to me.

    While I definitely think that there is a value to having a forum so people can share experiences, especially technical, I do not believe that there has to be a 'club' or a need to pay in to a pool to make that possible. I visit and am involved with several on-line forums and some very powerful (solid cores with tons of data from many years past) platforms. No member ships needed. The income this club needs to sustain its existence is questionable to me. If you want to produce a magazine, then let people and sponsors pay for it. If you want to have a national event, let people and sponsors pay for it. If its not financially viable, then don't do it

    If you want this club to grow, my suggestion would be to open up the door to non owners. Plenty of people out there that would want to be part and the fact that you 'have' to have a Vin to join, reminds me a bit of the Hollywood elite entitlement BS. You could certainly brand the non owners but do allow them to join. You want money.....let those that are willing pay you. You may not have the luxury to turn them down just so you can stay exclusive

    The fact that the Viper is no longer produced will most likely affect the existing clubs over time but some of the forums I visit support cars and bikes that have been out of production for 40-50-60 years now. Still plenty of activity and I really don't think the passion for the Viper will go away as there will always be a core that is interested in keeping them alive.

    Again, this is just my personal take and some feedback from the other side of the membership argument
    This is much of my own feelings, so I am not going to add another lengthy response.
    I will add that when I bought mine 2 plus years ago, I paid and became a member of “both” groups as I was very excited to finally be involved in the Viper community.
    The next year when deciding to sign up I thought back and tried to think why I wanted to continue with both clubs...couldn't find a single reason honestly. I do enjoy surfing through the forums, but nearly all others I frequent are free. Nothing cutting edge in here really.
    I did run across like minded car enthusiasts in my area that are great. We occasionally hang and do car shit. Nothing VOA related.
    Not a dig, but my personal experiences here.
    Maybe I am looking at this wrong, but I feel that even making this post was a bit tacky...like trying to pit the die hards against the noobs, and making them/us feel guilted into paying. I thought the phone call requesting renewal was even worse. A single email, sure.
    Carry on.
    Troy

  18. #68
    Regional President
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    To all, I appreciate the feedback. It takes time and effort in a world where time is at a premium and effort is demanded in every direction.

    If you did not care, then you would not post. This is better the Yelp
    Brian
    98/99

    Motor City Viper Owners - Associate Member
    Coordinator - Hilton Head Concours 2019, Amelia Island Cars & Coffee 2019, Greenbrier Concours 2018
    GT2 Owners Group

  19. #69
    VOA Member
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    I became a VOA Member because I wanted to support the Club in return for all the information offered on the forum. I've learned a lot about Vipers from the forum but very little from the magazine. Nice color photos and quality paper, but I don't get much satisfaction from reading about road trips. I agree with AngleIron and Fatboy 18.

    AngleIron: "This magazine should have articles about what the future holds for part availability. There are articles about vineyards and club rides which does NOTHING for being an owner for a car that is no longer made...why are there no articles about how to set up for the track? Race results were Vipers are being raced? Problems to look out for the cars that could have a part problem down the road because FCA bailed on us, and what the possible options are now...90% of a magazine is fluff when there are more important issues that the VOA should be helping with for the membership."

    Fatboy 18: "You could probably fill half a magazine talking to the guys that do track days. The Tech question and answers page is not that great...tech pages on how the cars were actually assembled in the factory would be good. What is the deal with paint now on the earlier models being as Celouse products are not being used. Bubbling paintwork between Gel coat and Primer. What to use and what Not to use. Is the Club involved in contacting suppliers to procure orders of obsolete parts. Windscreens for the Early cars as an example. Tech stuff like how to use a code reader and scan tool. I know there are some pages with a How to Guide, but there really could be much more. Nitrous? Who has it what's the set up for a stock road car?"
    If you want things to stay the same, things will have to change.
    2002 Red RT/10

  20. #70
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperTony View Post
    The drama and smugness in thread is a major reason why people don't sign up for membership. You drama queen assholes do a great job keeping members away. Good work.
    No Drama, it's called a debate feedback is a good thing to take things forward

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98intrigue View Post
    I wasn

    Edit: I hate the bug with apostrophes . I am not retyping what I said because it was lengthy, but cliff notes: the CFL region communication is practically nonexistent. I only renewed this year for NVE4 and do not plan to renew next year.
    Sounds like you need to reach out to your club President and make some Sugar Honey Ice Tea happen bro! Or run for pres a similar chair. It's sad (overall, not directed at you) that we'd let it die before owning a chance to change or contribute personally... maybe an indicator of the real overall problem.

    I'm running for president because I'm going to GROW this region, and revive the club on a local level. Some new young blood will do good to drive new members and encourage membership.
    Last edited by ACR-ISH; 02-06-2020 at 10:11 AM.
    Northern CA VOA Operations Director ****** 2014 SRT Viper - Full APR Aero - BC Racing Coil Overs - Forgeline GA3R-6 - and the list goes on...
    @acr_ish and @fivehundrednorth (dot com) on IG

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angleiron View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion but that does not mean that you can criticize mine. I am a realist, and the good old days of a car being supported are gone. When I get the magazine, I look briefly through it...and I never bother again. There is no more dealer support, and the factory could give a rats ass about anyone who bought a Viper because they are done with it. So to me an organization that solely exists because of the car should realize that we are on our own now has a responsibility to start stepping up to help the members who own the cars versus what has been going on with nothing but fluff about club rides.

    If you bought a Viper to make friends then that is your prerogative. This magazine should have articles about what the future holds for part availability. I know for a fact that there are dealers that are gouging on parts right now because the factory or vendors could care less about availability. Why are there no articles about this? Instead there are articles about vineyards and club rides which does NOTHING for being an owner for a car that is no longer made. Do you know that there are dealers who used to take pride in selling the Viper that are now charging $400 over the factory price (which is already too much) because they know they are the only one who has the part?

    Why are there no articles about how to set up for the track? Race results were Vipers are being raced? Problems to look out for the cars that could have a part problem down the road because FCA bailed on us, and what the possible options are now. You don't have to like my take on things as to me there is a great disservice when 90% of a magazine is fluff when there are more important issues that the VOA should be helping with for the membership.

    I do not need to be lectured about what you like, and because I do not like the same things you do in a car specific magazine that I am partially paying for that I am wrong. I am not a nut swinger so trying to belittle someone for pointing out that there is a need for improvements that would benefit the every member is petty. I get NOTHING from seeing car club events, I have the right to have that opinion, and there is a need for the magazine to step it up for being informative. The boat is being missed on so many levels with the VOA.

    Maybe that will take a little time to sink in for some.

    ANGLEIRON - First off; my response wasn't meant to be a criticism of you directly. Even re-reading my response, I don't see any belittling or lecturing. We're all stating opinions and giving feedback. I should have been more appreciative of your input and thanked you for stating WHY the magazine wasn't something you enjoy, and absorbed why it wasn't for you. The reality is, I was simply stating that for me, it included a lot of things that I enjoyed reading. I think to some degree, we all like seeing our cars published, too. So maybe for those involved in large regional and national events, the publications cater to them. But, it doesn't mean everyone likes those articles and the it also doesn't mean the magazine is what we want, so I digress from that point. MORE IMPORTANTLY, is your feedback will allow us to change the direction of the club's focus, especially on a regional level, and hopefully on a national level, too. As so many have said, this is better than I anticipated and I'm happy we are getting such good feedback! I love seeing all the heavy hitters coming in and responding to this feedback. It's inspiring. Realistically, we CAN change anything, so I think this is a step in the right direction. Please accept my apology for being defensive, and thank you for being honest. I should have recognized it better!

    That being said... I didn't buy either of my Vipers to make friends, but it has been a result of this venture into my dream car! "You come for the club, you stay for the people." And yeah, not everyone is a people person. I'm a track guy, have raced the west coast (mostly on a motorcycle, AFM/AMA) for the better part of 15 years. I would LOVE more tech articles and I think we would all love more feedback on what the magazine needs. I'm sure Maurice would love more input to make the magazine something we can wait to open, and tear into immediately to read from to back while sitting on the John! (not the JonB, don't sit on him).

    So maybe the huge take away is we need a thread... a POC... something that allows members to feed back into the club and let us know what they want to see. If we can organize something like that, where you input is appreciated and acted on, does that entice membership? Otherwise, we just chase our tail only taking the advice of paying members, since they ARE contributing. It's a slippery slope, but I think we can begin moving in the right direction.

    THOUGHTS?
    Northern CA VOA Operations Director ****** 2014 SRT Viper - Full APR Aero - BC Racing Coil Overs - Forgeline GA3R-6 - and the list goes on...
    @acr_ish and @fivehundrednorth (dot com) on IG

  23. #73
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    I have been around since 2008 and was taken in with open arms to the Viper community, which lead to friendships that have endured and created a bond. Once the VOA started it was a given that we started our own region here in Nebraska. Membership to the club has kept us more in tune on what is going on with Vipers and again created friendships that have lasted. Locally folks tell us they never saw Vipers till the last 7 years here in town. Our club opened the eyes of the public that these cars do exist.

    Yes I am a club guy.

    Bruce
    2009 ACR GTS Blue with Black stripes (1 of 2)
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  24. #74
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandomatt View Post
    This post is not intended to knock the club or those that choose to become members. Just my take on the whole membership idea

    I was a member of VCA when I got my first Viper. When 'the war' ensued, I joined VOA early on as the one thing I can not tolerate as being part of my hobbies/passions is politics

    So I was a paying member for a couple of years. I live in an area far away from any concentration of Vipers. That said, even if I was closer, I am not a 'clubber'. While I am very passionate about my Vipers (as well as cars and bikes in general), I have no interest in the social aspect of it. I will never attend a national event, even if it was close to home. You can tell me all about how awesome it is.......I have zero interest. I have met a few other Viper owners but they have not changed my opinion about the cars and have not made me feel like I need to seek out more like minded owners

    When I was a member, I got the magazine of course. This, as has been mentioned above, was for me a quick flip through with very little content. A lot of money spent on glossy paper but no reason whatsoever to hold on to for a reference down the road (many publications are). I even let it be known on this forum that if anyone (non member) wanted the magazines I got, I would mail them forward to anyone interested.

    As far as the trinkets you get when signing up, the Batman club (I am not a member of this either) probably offers some similar stuff and they represent no value to me.

    While I definitely think that there is a value to having a forum so people can share experiences, especially technical, I do not believe that there has to be a 'club' or a need to pay in to a pool to make that possible. I visit and am involved with several on-line forums and some very powerful (solid cores with tons of data from many years past) platforms. No member ships needed. The income this club needs to sustain its existence is questionable to me. If you want to produce a magazine, then let people and sponsors pay for it. If you want to have a national event, let people and sponsors pay for it. If its not financially viable, then don't do it
    This is me right here. Too much drama, too much politics. Anytime people refer to a car club as a business, it makes my hair stand on end. I was once a paid member of the VCA, but when that whole drama went down, I reevaluated my decision as to whether or not I would continue to be a paid member of any type of club. It's never generally a good thing when large amounts of money are involved, because there will always be a select few that will take full advantage of the generosity of others. I've seen enough around here to understand that while the VOA isn't a carbon copy of the VCA, it also isn't too far off. I'm not saying people are mishandling money (and I truly don't think that's happening here), but the drama is still there. Never again.

    I choose to contribute to the larger community by documenting the issues I've run into on my own Viper with detailed, picture-heavy posts made available to all. If you insist that that is a paid membership perk only, then I'll happily remove all of my content and move on. My time is valuable, and to date, I have given it to this forum freely. But as we have seen in this thread alone, value is in the eye of the beholder, and clearly there are others that value the social aspect more. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it's just not my thing, at least not at this stage of my life.

    These threads come up on a fairly regular basis, and I can only ask why? Why all of these desperate pleas for membership generated revenue? I can assure you, denigrating "enthusiasts" is a bad approach if you are looking to shore up your financials - telling us that we're being selfish, and that $115 is nothing is off-putting. While both may be at least partially true, we all have different priorities in life, and me helping fund yours isn't in my best interest. It's not that everyone is out to get you; it's that everyone is for themselves. That's just human nature.

    My $0.02.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Manifold | HPTuners | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 11.04 @ 129.7, 1.81 60' (-100 ft DA, w/ 3.55s)

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboy 18 View Post
    Have to say I agree with Angleiron on the Magazine front, all the adverts for other Dodge vehicles don't interest me one bit.

    Magazine should be about the Viper Period..
    x2 A challenger ad is the last thing I want to see

    I would like to see more of what can be done to find obsolete parts. The Pirelli order was a great move by the club, would like to see more move like this
    P.A.Savignac
    Charter member 142
    2004 SRT-10, 2014 GTS


 
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