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  1. #1

    Why dont we hear more about gen 5 with superchargers

    How come we never hear about more people putting superchargers on their Gen 5? What is the disadvantage of doing this for a car you plan on driving around town and occasionally tracking?

    What are pro's/con's of a supercharger vs heads/cam?

    Thanks in advance for the knowledge....
    2017 Dodge Viper ACR-E 1 of 1 Ceramic Blue ( A&C Performance H/C)

  2. #2
    VOA Member
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    Martyb's Avatar
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    I have heard the crank doesn’t like the added stress, I think a few have broken running a s/c.
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  3. #3
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Cons:

    1. Lack of tuning options for the Gen 5 - you can make HPTuners work, but it isn't ideal. It isn't a limitation of the HPTuners software, but a limitation of the stock PCM. If you want to do it properly, you'll need to run something custom, and at that point, you are looking at big $$$.
    2. Added weight
    3. Added heat
    4. Added stress on crank snout
    5. Parasitic drag on engine
    6. Since the only option available is a centrifugal blower, you won't make good power until you are in the upper RPMs. This can be a pro when it comes to traction, but when it comes to power curves, area under the curve is the name of the game, and centrifugal blowers just don't give you that. There's a reason why OEM supercharger optioned cars use roots-style blowers (Hellcat, Demon, C7Z, etc.). The "Sledgehammer" blower option never came to pass for the Viper.
    7. Just like everything in the Viper world, the expense is still really high, and to me, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze

    Pros:

    1. Sounds cool? I like the sound of a blower whistling at idle.
    2. It should make more power than a heads/cam setup, but again, area under the curve is king. How you will drive the car matters most.

    I'm not trying to say you can't make big power with a centrifugal blower, but by the time you add up the costs, you might as well have just gone with a turbo setup, which would give you tons of head room to make big power later down the road when (not if) you get used to the power and want more. The Gen 5 Viper platform just isn't a DIY mod friendly platform, mainly due to the one-off PCM they've been using for the Viper since the Gen 4. Don't read that as me saying the Gen 5 isn't mod friendly...people have shown how far you can take a stock shortblock, and that number is pretty high. While it's impressive, those builds were not done by your average shadetree mechanic working out of his or her garage. If you are looking to save a quick buck and do most of the work yourself, you are going to be very limited with what you can do. That's what draws most people to centrifugal superchargers - it's the thought of being able to just bolt one on over a weekend and enjoying 200+ additional HP on Monday.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes
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  4. #4
    Enthusiast Quasar Z's Avatar
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    That is exactly what Todd mentioned to me when we were discussing superchargers vs TT’s. I believe he had a couple of cars in his shop at that time that broke the snout off of the crankshaft. There were also some issues with the air filter box that required modification, and one in particular that sucked the filter into the supercharger and destroyed the head unit. Finally, it seems that if you are going to turn it up the factory ECU isn’t really happy and a MOTEC and a bigger fuel system is needed. I also spoke to Calvo back when I bought my Viper and he said that by the time you do it right with a supercharger, you are approaching TT prices levels.
    2013 GTS Launch Edition - #34/150

  5. #5
    For me coming from a few forced induction cars, I couldn't wait to get back to normally aspirated power. You can build plenty of usable and reliable power with these cars and not have to deal with the downsides mentioned previously. On my last GT500, I did everything mechanically possible to combat heat soak on track yet the computer would still pull the timing out after a while. At 765 HP for my 9.0L, I wouldn't want any more as it would be useless for my purposes.
    Blake

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  6. #6
    I had 3 buddies ganging up on me about a blower being better for track use and everyday driving than H/C. I dont have much blower knowledge so looking for people who know.....then i'll just direct them here. Lol. I just know i hardly hear about G5 vipers doing superchargers.... i was sure there was a reason. Weak cranks and heat soak was my hunch, but i see there are other concerns too....

    Thanks for the info. I am forsure doing H/C but was curious about what issues a blower would add. I was completely happy with the drivability of my AC performance H/C gts. Doing it again on my ACR.
    Last edited by BJG32; 03-08-2020 at 11:18 AM.
    2017 Dodge Viper ACR-E 1 of 1 Ceramic Blue ( A&C Performance H/C)

  7. #7
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    In an alternate universe, there is an OEM 6th Generation Viper with a mid or rear engined Redeye Hellcat engine and drivetrain producing 810 HP weighing 3150 pounds.
    Semper SRT. Proud owner of 2014 Viper TA, 2019 Challenger Redeye Hellcat, 2018 Trackhawk and supercharged 2008 SRT8 Grand Cherokee.

  8. #8
    I'm sorry but totally disagree about centrifugal blowers not being a good fit. My Gen3 has a Paxton setup making 850rwhp/800rwhp with 93 pump, on a conservative tune @ 9psi. It's power is PERFECT for street use. It never ran hot, never pulled timing even drag racing in the middle of August in Florida. The power curve was so good for street use as the power comes in very smooth and progressive yet pulled harder and harder to redline. For occasional hwy run in...only big build turbo cars ever beat me. They all had to have 1,000rwhp+. When I would run them psi vs psi. I'd jump them and they couldn't reel me in until last 160-ish. Sure they made more power on paper by about 50-60rwhp but they lost power with each shift and I didn't and that's the difference. Also throttle response is so much better with a centrifugal blower just like N/A. Turbos need rpm to have good throttle response but still has to build boost...blowers don't. If you are daily driving blowers are the way to go. You can throw in a lumpy cam and have the killer sound; Every turbo car wish they could sound that evil at idle Anything over 800-900 is tough to put down on the street regardless type of power. Epically on a real street tire that can let you get caught in the rain and not worry about death with just a sprinkle.

    To combat the crank issue....PIN IT!

    I will probably go centrifugal again with my Gen5. Mild when you want it. And ramps progressively to insanity in a controllable way. You can't say that about turbo cars without tons of drivers aids.

  9. #9
    Enthusiast 99RT10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey View Post
    I'm sorry but totally disagree about centrifugal blowers not being a good fit. My Gen3 has a Paxton setup making 850rwhp/800rwhp with 93 pump, on a conservative tune @ 9psi. It's power is PERFECT for street use. It never ran hot, never pulled timing even drag racing in the middle of August in Florida. The power curve was so good for street use as the power comes in very smooth and progressive yet pulled harder and harder to redline. For occasional hwy run in...only big build turbo cars ever beat me. They all had to have 1,000rwhp+. When I would run them psi vs psi. I'd jump them and they couldn't reel me in until last 160-ish. Sure they made more power on paper by about 50-60rwhp but they lost power with each shift and I didn't and that's the difference. Also throttle response is so much better with a centrifugal blower just like N/A. Turbos need rpm to have good throttle response but still has to build boost...blowers don't. If you are daily driving blowers are the way to go. You can throw in a lumpy cam and have the killer sound; Every turbo car wish they could sound that evil at idle Anything over 800-900 is tough to put down on the street regardless type of power. Epically on a real street tire that can let you get caught in the rain and not worry about death with just a sprinkle.

    To combat the crank issue....PIN IT!

    I will probably go centrifugal again with my Gen5. Mild when you want it. And ramps progressively to insanity in a controllable way. You can't say that about turbo cars without tons of drivers aids.
    The ease of SC a Gen 3 does not compare with the more that is needed to be invested in the Gen V to work, plus the added possibility of breaking crankshafts.

    I agree a Gen V with Heads/cam is a great sounding/great performing platform.
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  10. #10
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    I've had a few forced inducted cars as well....both supercharger and turbo. Everyone is talking about breaking crankshafts. I can see a some stress from with a serpentine belt setup having to have a super tight belt to avoid slippage, but why not use a cog belt setup then? You barely have to have the belt snug.

    As far as reliability on the track, I'd personally go with a heads cam setup all day long. Maybe knock sensors work well with the modern day forced induced cars...but it's not for me anymore. You'll have to pull so much timing out for a heat soaked supercharger setup, why bother...unless you're spiking your fuel. And when you get older and your heads up your ass like mine is sometimes, you have to make sure you don't accidentally pump 87 octane in your tank....go ahead laugh...until it happens to you..boosted engines frown on that shit. You really can't get more reliability than with a H/C setup.

    And if you go with forced induction and break something...it's just a extra load of crap that you have to remove/navigate around to fix your problem. I just don't have the patience for all that anymore. If you have tons of cash to piss away and you don't do the work yourself, then its not an issue.
    .
    Last edited by Gen5snake; 03-09-2020 at 02:32 PM.


 

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