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  1. #126
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    ViperGeorge's Avatar
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    I should point out that the club worked with Pirelli to get another run of tires for our cars made. Without that work by the club, tires would be even harder to come by. So it is not all fluff.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
    2008 Vert in Viper Bright Blue with silver stripes.
    2014 GTS in white with gunmetal stripes. I'm also one of the original 100's

  2. #127
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    Did someone mention the possibility of getting a fanny pack when joining the club?.....sign me up!!


    Back to the reality of warranty denials.....From a legal perspective, is there anything in writing from FCA that requires Gen 5's to have their oil changed every 6 months, even if the vehicle is not driven?

    Is this something that was instituted after the R28 program or equivalent to maintain the remaining 3 year power train warranty?
    IMO, if it is not in writing with either a signature or initial of the buyer acknowledging this 6 month oil change requirement when purchasing the car, it does not exist and is an invalid argument by both VE or FCA.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackAire View Post
    Back to the reality of warranty denials.....From a legal perspective, is there anything in writing from FCA that requires Gen 5's to have their oil changed every 6 months, even if the vehicle is not driven?
    It's in the owner's manual.
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    2014 GTS

  4. #129
    Enthusiast StrokerAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by outnumbered View Post
    Hope the OP was done with this thread.....
    Ha!

    Maybe he will get a free Danny pack with his new engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by BSLSK View Post
    It's in the owner's manual.
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    They would have to prove the oil is what caused the malfunction.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheme1985 View Post
    They would have to prove the oil is what caused the malfunction.
    The problem is that I think that they only have to prove it if you hire a lawyer and sue them.
    Jim

  6. #131
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    Well this simple statement surely stirred up the pot..."So all you enthusiast why not support the forum and join the club".

    There are two types of people out there: Those that get it and those that don't.

    I believe that was a quote from Bruce Lee and I don't think he even own a Viper.lol
    2000 GTS built/Paxton:Sold
    2013 GTS
    2010 SRT10 Coupe

  7. #132
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    For all those defending FCA in this episode, you just may be missing the extent of the issue. VE has been good to work with, FCA not so much. As someone else mentioned, this 6 month oil change angle has been used many times in warranty denials and represents a trend. One of several changes in FCA warranty service. I don’t want to write a novel on the subject, but I have changed my tune on FCA. In short, after buying 15 to 20 Ram pickups as company trucks over the past 4 years all I can say is that the last 6 we bought are Fords. Everyone is free to form their own opinions, but FCA warranty services have changed dramatically (and not for the better).

    Very happy it is working out for OP.

  8. #133
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    FCA may initially try to use the 6 month change requirement to deny claims but they don't seem to stick to it. I believe that it's the dealer and his relationship with the owner that mostly dictates the success or failure of having a claim approved. Many owners do not have a good relationship, or any relationship, with a dealer. Many do their own regular service and hate the thought of ever needing to take their car to a dealer...not helpful when trying to convince FCA that the car has been regularly and properly serviced. I suspect quite a few still haven't had the R28/29 and other recalls done and some haven't even got their break-in miles on them yet and their warranty has expired. Some are basically a nobody when they walk into a dealer with a problem when they need that dealer to go to bat for them.

    Some local VOA region members use certain dealers in their area and have a strong and mutually beneficial relationship with them. Having those dealers tell FCA that they've been the ones regularly maintaining the car for years and know the owner probably counts for a lot. But either way owners need to be savy, and in some cases may need to be really determined and prepared to escalate their claim up the ladder if necessary.

    Which manufacturers are better at approving warranty claims than FCA or build a car as robust as the Viper? I'm not talking about pickup trucks, but high performance sports cars. I went through the complete list in 2013 before ordering my '14 Viper. Porsche builds a great car but are known to be the devil to deal with for warranty. AMG was switching from the SLS to GTS model and still an unknown. GM had the Corvette but after the experience of friends I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole, and I remember seeing a GM service advisor yelling at a customer that an engine consuming 1 litre of oil per 1000 kms (600 miles) was within spec. I wasn't looking for a pony car so that eliminated Ford and others. Outrageous cost of maintenance and depreciation on a Ferrari that's tracked or driven more than a 1000 kms per year ruled it out, same with McLaren with even less reliability, and Lambo styling just doesn't do it for me. I'd have had to go down the performance ladder to Maserati with same issues as Ferrari, as a Jaguar XKR owner I knew better than to buy their F-Type, Aston same as Jaguar, Alfa 4c...no.

    The choice boiled down to Viper, and Porsche (GT3) that didn't have a sterling reputation for warranty. Last year I ordered a new 911 Turbo S and experienced their horrible warranty practices within the first 3 months. I've put 65000 kms on my Viper over 5 years and had a number of warranty claims painlessly approved. Many others bought the Gen V Viper as their first ever Dodge or FCA product and were likely concerned about reliability and warranty also. But it wasn't like there was any other manufacturer of truly high performance vehicles that was a safer bet...and 5 years later there still isn't.

    So while the reality of manufacturer's warranties probably sucks across the board, I look at it this way. My Viper experience has been great so far, I don't see anything on the horizon that could replace it, and if one day I had a major out of pocket expense I'd probably feel better and huge dollars ahead than if I had bought anything else. Not many Viper owners will even have a warranty before long, except for those with the 10 year powertrain extension, but if somebody thinks there's as better manufacturer out there to deal with then they can give that a try. But otherwise it might be a good idea to try to establish a good relationship with your dealer service department.
    Last edited by Bruce H.; 03-27-2020 at 09:26 AM.
    2014 SRT Black TA, 65,000 kms, special occasion fun. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 991.2 Turbo S, 16,000 kms, anytime fun.

  9. #134
    3000 miles or every 6 months whichever comes first..... That is hilarious as I know quite a few people who don't even drive the car once or twice in 6 months and would never consider changing the oil until they got to 1000 miles. One friend has owned his car since 2013 and he has a whopping 1800 miles on the odometer. The only time the oil was changed was at 600 miles and when they did the R28 and R29 recalls seperately so that gives him 3 oil changes in less than 2000 miles, but over a 7 year period. I think logic would come into play in a situation like that (or at least I hope it would).

    I just got done changing my oil today. Man... 11 quarts takes quite a while to drain!
    Blake

    2016 1 of 1 Viper GTC Prefix 9.0 Stroker Stage 2 Arrow

  10. #135
    Enthusiast USAFPILOT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheme1985 View Post
    Why did the oil get low to begin with? Weren't a lot of these engines burning oil at what most would call well above average even for a performance vehicle? That's another knock on the engines to me. IMO FCA was not being magnanimous by replacing those that were a bit low and starved as a result. Should you check your oil regularly? Absolutely. Should you find your car low 2-3 quarts on a brand new 100k vehicle after a couple thousand miles? In my book that's a big no.
    It is my understanding that they burn a lot of oil until broken in. People weren't paying close enough attention during break in, I think. Mine doesn't burn much if any now at 10,000 miles.

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFPILOT View Post
    It is my understanding that they burn a lot of oil until broken in. People weren't paying close enough attention during break in, I think. Mine doesn't burn much if any now at 10,000 miles.
    Agreed. Neither of my Gen 5s burn one drop of oil even after thousands of miles and track days.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
    2008 Vert in Viper Bright Blue with silver stripes.
    2014 GTS in white with gunmetal stripes. I'm also one of the original 100's

  12. #137
    Wow, you don’t visit the forum for a couple days and look what all ya miss. Hec of a thread for a solved OP topic.

    I think the debate about all this is just open to everyone’s perspective, vs right or wrong. Some of us have been viper owners and nuts for over 20 years now (god I’m old), and we have a long hissstory of a close relationship with Dodge and the amazing people who brought the viper to reality. When FCA started treating us like they don’t care about us, when many have put over a million dollars of product in their driveways and rep’d their Halo for years and multiple gen’s, it stung pretty hard. Many of us got a bad taste from that. I have always been a diehard viper guy since 1998, but yea, seeing how FCA was treating owners on warranty claims considering the dirty blocks that later required and block washing station and then that even not fixing the issue, but denying a claim over oil change receipts or whatever ... it turned me off, and then they just became another car company - the passion left, but for them, not for the car.

    So, I agree, you see warranty games played by many places. I will say our S4 manual trans and clutch went up under warranty, we bought used but worth an extended warranty. They opened it and found an aftermarket clutch. Could’ve denied warranty easy, it was a $9k repair, but they replaced the trans under warranty and covered everything if I bought a clutch. So there’s good and bad out there. We were just spoiled for a long time with a car company that was as passionate about us as we were about them. Now it’s just a company, I’ve come to grips with it. IMHO the viper in any gen is one of the best cars you can ever have, with an amazing aftermarket to take car of you. Dodge ... meh. Although I still have $100k in their Jeep products in my driveway.
    McLaren 650s Spyder. Ex’s ‘16 ACR, VE H/C, '13 GTS, '99 RT/10, '03 SRT, '08 SRT. - 'God bless America, all 8.4 liters' - R.Pobst

  13. #138
    VOA Mamba Member
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    ViperGeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dman View Post
    Wow, you don’t visit the forum for a couple days and look what all ya miss. Hec of a thread for a solved OP topic.

    I think the debate about all this is just open to everyone’s perspective, vs right or wrong. Some of us have been viper owners and nuts for over 20 years now (god I’m old), and we have a long hissstory of a close relationship with Dodge and the amazing people who brought the viper to reality. When FCA started treating us like they don’t care about us, when many have put over a million dollars of product in their driveways and rep’d their Halo for years and multiple gen’s, it stung pretty hard. Many of us got a bad taste from that. I have always been a diehard viper guy since 1998, but yea, seeing how FCA was treating owners on warranty claims considering the dirty blocks that later required and block washing station and then that even not fixing the issue, but denying a claim over oil change receipts or whatever ... it turned me off, and then they just became another car company - the passion left, but for them, not for the car.

    So, I agree, you see warranty games played by many places. I will say our S4 manual trans and clutch went up under warranty, we bought used but worth an extended warranty. They opened it and found an aftermarket clutch. Could’ve denied warranty easy, it was a $9k repair, but they replaced the trans under warranty and covered everything if I bought a clutch. So there’s good and bad out there. We were just spoiled for a long time with a car company that was as passionate about us as we were about them. Now it’s just a company, I’ve come to grips with it. IMHO the viper in any gen is one of the best cars you can ever have, with an amazing aftermarket to take car of you. Dodge ... meh. Although I still have $100k in their Jeep products in my driveway.
    We are alike. My first Viper was a new 1998 RT/10. Been a Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep guy ever since. I used to buy only Fords but the Viper and the people I met from Dodge/Chrysler changed that. But the way FCA has been treating their best customers in the last couple of years have turned me off too. I know some of the SRT engineers and have for years. They are still passionate about cars and racing but the bean counters are ruining the company in my opinion. A loyal customer is a real company asset and should be treasured, not crapped on at every opportunity. Yes, I still love my Vipers, they are like no other car and even after years they still garner unbelievable attention where ever I go. Doesn't matter if I'm in my 08 or my 17. Same is true for some of the older cars in our region.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
    2008 Vert in Viper Bright Blue with silver stripes.
    2014 GTS in white with gunmetal stripes. I'm also one of the original 100's

  14. #139
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    Glad the OP got covered.

    Maybe it's just because I go through a lot of consumables, but the discounts on tires, brake pads, parts I get from being a member pays for itself and then some every year. Not everyone is a joiner, I get it. I for one have a lot of great friends from over the last 14 years of ownership over two clubs and a ton of good experiences from various events.

    Some people aren't joiners. Others decide the club isn't their thing. I learned as a volunteer in the past you can try to make everyone happy and maximize involvement but even the best run regions have potential members that just don't buy in. No harm, no foul.
    2017 Dealer Edition ACR-E Past Vipers:2013 blue and silver GTS, 2008 Red and Black ACR-X Clone, 2008 Black caged ACR
    2009 SSG with black stripes ACR, 1997 Blue with White stripes GTS

  15. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGeorge View Post
    Agreed. Neither of my Gen 5s burn one drop of oil even after thousands of miles and track days.
    Ive seen you mention this on many threads.. but forget to point out youre running 15w-50. Which makes all the difference in the world.

  16. #141
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    i didnt notice any reduced oil consumption when i swapped to 15W-50
    2013 RaceYellow/Black GTS Laguna
    2015 Mustang GT Premium Perf Pack

  17. #142
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    Can they say they will not cover the replacement if you chose to go with the 15w-50 since its not in the factory book? (It maybe, i have not looked.)
    2018 Cadillac CTS-V III, 2016 ACR-E, 2015 Jeep SRT (SOLD), 1997 GTS B/W Stripes (SOLD)

  18. #143
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    Remember when FCA said they fixed the exploding rear hatch glass on the 2016 and 2017 Vipers there for any ‘16/‘17 with a shattered rear hatch was obviously owner neglect.

    Yea me too.

    Glad you got a new motor.
    2009 SSG ACR Hardcore 1 of 1 before it was cool
    2017 SSG ACR-eXtreme 1 of 1 after it was cool

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  19. #144
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    Back to the original problem. Was thinking that a broken valve spring, like the one, could have caused the keepers/retainer to come unglued, then the engine to digest the valve.

    https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...n-Clutch/page4
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