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  1. #76
    Enthusiast sadil's Avatar
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    Great to hear! Scary thought to eat that cost for no reason. Glad Dodge didn’t take it further. Seemed like a front line assumption by the warranty group.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    As I read through this thread and saw all the negativity towards FCA I thought some guys are really jumping the gun on what will or will not happen after hearing one side of the story. I think we shouldn't be surprised that the first quick response will be a refusal or reluctance to have a power-train warranty claim approved, either by the dealer or manufacturer. I'd suggest having to push or escalate it up the ladder sounds more like the norm to me. And it's the same with a Porsche costing double a Viper...ask me how I know.

    No need for everybody to bad mouth FCA or go out and sell their Vipers all at once!
    Truth is that this is not a new MO for FCA. If they really wanted to be customer focused they would not have denied the claim outright. They should have said we are looking into this and then escalated up the chain themselves - not ask the customer to take on that responsibility. Look how many loyal FCA customers they just got crazy. Why? There was absolutely no reason for it. Personally I own 6 FCA products, 3 Vipers, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT, a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited, and a Challenger RT Plus. FCA's total lack of customer focus has me questioning why I own all of these. Yes, I love my Vipers but really? I know that other manufacturers sometimes do the same thing but it is plain wrong. An unhappy customer tells like 10 people about their bad experience. Why would any company risk that. It is plain stupid and the person that originally denied the claim probably should be fired. I've run large customer service organizations and I know what I am talking about. This is really bad corporate policy.

    Doesn't matter that they don't make the Viper any longer, if they want me to keep buying FCA products they should bloody well fix this mess. This is not the first time this has happened. If I were the CEO of FCA the warranty guy/lady would be on a very, very short leash if I hadn't already fired their stupid ass.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    As I read through this thread and saw all the negativity towards FCA I thought some guys are really jumping the gun on what will or will not happen after hearing one side of the story. I think we shouldn't be surprised that the first quick response will be a refusal or reluctance to have a power-train warranty claim approved, either by the dealer or manufacturer. I'd suggest having to push or escalate it up the ladder sounds more like the norm to me. And it's the same with a Porsche costing double a Viper...ask me how I know.

    No need for everybody to bad mouth FCA or go out and sell their Vipers all at once!
    Here is some reasonable thinking above.^^^^^^^ Is it that surprising that FCA doesn't want to warranty a car that dosn't have documentation of oil changes that they clearly stated that need to be meet for the warranty to be valid. I have no idea if there was any impressed or written warranty from VE at the time of purchase.

    Also lets not forget the this car is what six years old. Sure the car has only 5000 miles on it. But stop and think for a minute, there was nothing stopping the buyer from purchasing an extended warranty at the time of purchase was there?

    So having the buyer prove to FCA that the failure was due to something other than oil change frequency in not out of the realm of possibilities is it.

    I hope truly everything works out for the OP.

    But come on guys lets use a little common sense here and leave the emotions for the Democrats. Sorry I just could resist.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGeorge View Post
    Truth is that this is not a new MO for FCA. If they really wanted to be customer focused they would not have denied the claim outright. They should have said we are looking into this and then escalated up the chain themselves - not ask the customer to take on that responsibility. Look how many loyal FCA customers they just got crazy. Why? There was absolutely no reason for it. Personally I own 6 FCA products, 3 Vipers, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT, a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon unlimited, and a Challenger RT Plus. FCA's total lack of customer focus has me questioning why I own all of these. Yes, I love my Vipers but really? I know that other manufacturers sometimes do the same thing but it is plain wrong. An unhappy customer tells like 10 people about their bad experience. Why would any company risk that. It is plain stupid and the person that originally denied the claim probably should be fired. I've run large customer service organizations and I know what I am talking about. This is really bad corporate policy.

    Doesn't matter that they don't make the Viper any longer, if they want me to keep buying FCA products they should bloody well fix this mess. This is not the first time this has happened. If I were the CEO of FCA the warranty guy/lady would be on a very, very short leash if I hadn't already fired their stupid ass.
    George, I think you're being a little hard on FCA.

    When you think of how many low mileage engines FCA replaced due to owner negligence of running them low on oil, as in no oil on the dip stick, I can understand their reluctance to immediately approve a warranty claim for a blown engine. Had they not produced some engines that actually were defective and created a PR nightmare they likely wouldn't have been so lenient at replacing engines they darn well knew had run low on oil.

    If not for the ease of posting on this forum none of us would ever have heard of this claim and the OP would still be getting his engine replaced under warranty and most of us would still be loving our Vipers and FCA products as much as before. Heck, you own 6 FCA products, and one can assume that's because you have had positive ownership experiences with FCA for years, and years, and years. And this thread made you question that?

    This Gen V forum has made it abundantly clear since Day 1 that an owner's level of satisfaction has overwhelmingly been determined by his/her relationship with the dealer, not FCA. Love your dealer...happy owner. Don't like your dealer...unhappy owner. I'd suggest that had VE stepped up that this thread would instead have been praising both VE and FCA, and deservedly so.

    I'm sure FCA recognizes that fairly supporting their dealers and customers is in everyone's best interests. Let's lean in to supporting them.

    GTSJake, really glad your dealer and FCA is supporting you, and hoping you'll consider supporting this community by becoming a VOA member.

    Bruce
    Last edited by Bruce H.; 03-25-2020 at 08:27 AM.
    2014 SRT Black TA, extreme special occasion fun. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
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  5. #80
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    Low on oil is not grounds for denial either. Oil starvation because of low/no oil is another matter. Running a few quarts low during normal driving won't harm a darned thing. FCAs assumption is that all these claims are from engines tracked, abused, not maintained precisely. Heck my GEN-II was serviced at a dealer shortly after I purchased it and after a few thousand miles, I checked the oil....wasn't on the dip stick so I checked my receipt from the dealer and they only put 8 quarts in it. They didn't realize a 2001 held 10 quarts. My 2002 Durango 5.9 (180k miles) has from time to time been down 2 quarts and you'd never know unless you check the oil. Just add a couple and motor on.

  6. #81
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    I don't want to be a ball breaker here or be viewed as being difficult/negative...but this is how I see it. I don't think anyone is being too hard on FCA at all. This is poor customer service/relations at its best. How can this be challenged? We read about this scenario time and time again on here. It's the same algorithm...Deny, hope the customer rolls over then reassess after push-back. This car definitely has its challenges with issues on multiple fronts and considering its very low production numbers... It doesn't have a good track record. Lets look at all the engine failures, sensor failures, Uconnect crashes, window failures and cats melting paint...etc....that's all I read about...and not all complaints are logged on this site. All these issues with only 3900 units with most having extremely low mileage?? Rubbing salt in the wound is....try to find parts. I've been trying to obtain SWII wheels from FCA since August...all I get is the runaround. "we're selecting a new vendor to make these"...how hard is it? We have next to no support. How can that be argued? How is critiquing the truth too tough?

    Is the car fun and exceptional...eye candy?...absolutely!....when everything works its great. Like I previously stated in another post...it's a numbers game. All years of the gen 5 viper production = 0.18% of 2019 FCA total car sales. They don't give a crap about pissing off 0.18% of their customers. That is reality. Trust me, the executive management team is okay with this. If you want to put up with a car that will have no parts available and minimal support at best...have at it. I never experienced such poor customer service from an auto manufacture....and I also own a Jaguar that others were complaining about. Being turned away from a dealer because they don’t have a “Viper Tech” and having to drive an hour to one that does? Just adds insult to injury.

    With such low production numbers...for a company as large as FCA...what the hell would it cost to replace engines in all 3900 units??...next to nothing. Bottom line...FCA does not instill confidence in this consumer. Am I going to sell my car? No way. I'm in it for the long haul. Will I buy another? Nope. Poor support is poor support. I'm a retired operations exec w/ a mech engineering degree...I'm not the smartest guy in the world nor am I the dumbest....I know what I'm seeing.
    Last edited by Gen5snake; 03-25-2020 at 08:34 AM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellowviper View Post
    Oil starvation because of low/no oil is another matter.
    This is more what I was referring to, and the cause of failures I know of. Thanks for pointing that out and I've edited my post to read "due to owner negligence of running them low on oil, as in no oil on the dip stick".
    2014 SRT Black TA, extreme special occasion fun. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 991.2 Turbo S, fun 3 season DD.

  8. #83
    Easy to be more forgiving when your particular ox isn't being gored.

  9. #84
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    Why did the oil get low to begin with? Weren't a lot of these engines burning oil at what most would call well above average even for a performance vehicle? That's another knock on the engines to me. IMO FCA was not being magnanimous by replacing those that were a bit low and starved as a result. Should you check your oil regularly? Absolutely. Should you find your car low 2-3 quarts on a brand new 100k vehicle after a couple thousand miles? In my book that's a big no.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadMachinist View Post
    Here is some reasonable thinking above.^^^^^^^ Is it that surprising that FCA doesn't want to warranty a car that dosn't have documentation of oil changes that they clearly stated that need to be meet for the warranty to be valid. I have no idea if there was any impressed or written warranty from VE at the time of purchase.

    Also lets not forget the this car is what six years old. Sure the car has only 5000 miles on it. But stop and think for a minute, there was nothing stopping the buyer from purchasing an extended warranty at the time of purchase was there?

    So having the buyer prove to FCA that the failure was due to something other than oil change frequency in not out of the realm of possibilities is it.

    I hope truly everything works out for the OP.

    But come on guys lets use a little common sense here and leave the emotions for the Democrats. Sorry I just could resist.
    Remember the car had a 10 year/100,000 mile power train warranty. No extended warranty is necessary in this case.
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  11. #86
    Enthusiast chris_lee's Avatar
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    Really happy this worked out for you. I can't imagine the feeling after only a month of owning it. Not going to lie, this does help me sleep a little easier :-)

  12. #87
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    The fact that FCA made the 10 year/100k powertrain warranty transferable shows you they were trying to restore faith in the brand for both current and future owners hoping to maintain value in their cars. If they knew all along they were going to require service history to keep the warranty intact, they should have released an advisory letting owners know to keep records or to have it serviced at recommended dealers. The real issue is that many FCA dealers don't even have viper techs anymore, so getting service from them will be impossible. You would think they would at least offer full support of these cars while they are within factory warranties.

    Nevertheless, we have seen time and time again FCA not supporting the Viper brand and its enthusiasts. Which means that it is more important now than ever that we all support the VOA. If we show that the Viper brand has a huge following, FCA will have no excuse to not support us... it certainly wouldn't hurt to have more power in numbers. There are only 1,492 members today and that is pretty sad. The numbers are already against us considering low production. If you've benefited any from these forums and from the awesome sponsored vendors, why wouldn't you join? Just my 2 cents.
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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    George, I think you're being a little hard on FCA.

    When you think of how many low mileage engines FCA replaced due to owner negligence of running them low on oil, as in no oil on the dip stick, I can understand their reluctance to immediately approve a warranty claim for a blown engine. Had they not produced some engines that actually were defective and created a PR nightmare they likely wouldn't have been so lenient at replacing engines they darn well knew had run low on oil.

    If not for the ease of posting on this forum none of us would ever have heard of this claim and the OP would still be getting his engine replaced under warranty and most of us would still be loving our Vipers and FCA products as much as before. Heck, you own 6 FCA products, and one can assume that's because you have had positive ownership experiences with FCA for years, and years, and years. And this thread made you question that?

    This Gen V forum has made it abundantly clear since Day 1 that an owner's level of satisfaction has overwhelmingly been determined by his/her relationship with the dealer, not FCA. Love your dealer...happy owner. Don't like your dealer...unhappy owner. I'd suggest that had VE stepped up that this thread would instead have been praising both VE and FCA, and deservedly so.

    I'm sure FCA recognizes that fairly supporting their dealers and customers is in everyone's best interests. Let's lean in to supporting them.

    GTSJake, really glad your dealer and FCA is supporting you, and hoping you'll consider supporting this community by becoming a VOA member.

    Bruce
    Personally my experience has been fine - so far. However, every time something goes wrong with an engine FCA immediately looks to deny the claim. They did this with three people on here who spun bearings as a result of debris even though FCA knew they had issues with debris in the block. While they eventually paid for the repairs in those cases I am not sure the owners were really made whole though. FCA tried to blame the failures on the engine controller even though photographic evidence clearly showed that it was debris that caused the damage.

    I have another friend whose window stopped going up due to water infiltration into the door node and wire harness. It was a known problem on some model years before 2016 when they installed a waterproof shield over the node. There was a TSB fix for it. His claim for a new door node and corroded harness was denied because they said he left the window down which allowed water in. It was the exact opposite. The window stopped working because water got in and shorted out the door node. They knew this was a problem and still they denied it. He had to push it up the chain to get it fixed. Even then they only replaced one side under warranty and he had to pay to have the TSB done to the other working side even though the TSB clearly stated the dealer was to replace both door nodes and both wiring harnesses.

    It never used to be this way. It changed after 2009 or so. Prior to that Chrysler would cover pretty much everything. I blew the engine in my Gen 3 at Pocono Raceway somewhere around 2008. I was on track directly in front of Ralph Gilles in his Voodoo ACR some years ago when it let go. Two rods went through the block. Dodge didn't even raise an eyebrow they just replaced the engine under my extended warranty even though it occurred on track in front of their CEO. And the engine was supercharged!

    I agree some owners let their oil get low and may have damaged the engine as a result. I can't count how many times I've reminded people on this forum as to the proper way to check your oil yet many still believe they know best and will check it when cold which is wrong. Truth is that FCA's first reaction now a days is to deny the claim and see if the owner objects or lawyers up. FCA knows damn well what the Magnuson Moss act says and they have to prove that a non-FCA part or improper maintenance was the cause of any failure. They just can't say "well you didn't get your oil changed at a dealer so your warranty claim is denied." That is BS. Yes, VE should have said to FCA "what the F are you talking about, this is a legitimate claim which you must honor. A dropped valve spring was not caused by a failure to change oil on a 5,000 mile car."

    If they think that they are replacing too many engines under warranty because some bone-headed owner failed to put oil in they could have installed an electronic oil level system that would have left a telltale if the engine was really low. They didn't. Instead they gave us a dipstick on a $100,000 car that is just plain hard to read even when you check the oil correctly.

    So maybe I'm being hard on FCA but when they keep behaving poorly towards customers they should be slapped around a bit.
    Last edited by ViperGeorge; 03-25-2020 at 10:04 AM.
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  14. #89
    I'm thankful they are taking care of you properly... and going to change my oil soon to be on the safe side!
    Blake

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  15. #90
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    Lots of good points here.

    First, congratulations of finally getting someone to see the light at FCA. In my experience, you could have an engine in 4-6 weeks, and then install will be based on the capacity of your dealer and its staff. But with these current times, who knows.

    Second, I hear 'ya Bruce about the negativity, but the mfg's have made that bed for themselves. And you are correct, it is all of them. They've learned from the insurance industry to deny, deny, deny until it becomes apparent that fighting will eventually cost more than paying the claim. These are business decisions, made without any emotion. What mfg's could do (but don't because of the more expensive "denial" strategy) is to make a proper investigation immediately and invite the owner to participate in the process. Then, the parties can decide what can/should be done. But, again, this is expensive and I don't see why the mfg's would have any interest. They rather bear the negative sentiment it seems.

  16. #91
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    I personally know and track with a lot of Gen V track rats and they have nothing but praise for the car, our dealers and FCA, myself included.

    Why is that? In my case I avoided a first year car and the likelihood of having the issues typical of first year production cars...regardless of manufacturer. Lots of buyers do that and increase their chances of getting a more problem-free car. Many buyers rolled the dice and we heard about every single problem they had, some who posted their problems in every possible thread they could for as long as they could until we all got sick of it. And some of those are just learning impaired because they've ordered first year C8 Corvettes...hey, what could go wrong with that! Roll those dice.

    Add to that the fact that those with problems post on the forum looking for guidance and solutions. Not all owners are on this forum, but those with problems naturally start threads about those problems, and those with relatively problem-free cars don't start threads to say they have nothing to complain about. The impression readers get when reading the forum is naturally going to hear more about problems. And the dealer probably addresses many of those issues quickly and painlessly. Those owners who don't use the forums just take their issues to the dealer and get them fixed. If that doesn't work they seek out forums and post their issues. The forum just doesn't give an accurate picture of problems and owner satisfaction.

    Is there really anyone that didn't know that Dodge has a long history of poor reliability and customer satisfaction?

    Combine that with the car being such a low production and unique model that it seemed particularly important to research the availability of quality service. I did that by contacting members of the local VOA club here in Ontario and found a number of dealers that were recommended. If there wasn't I'd have bought a Porsche GT3. I never assumed or expected Dodge to have qualified local service nation-wide. One of the most frequent questions and complaints here is related to finding quality local service. There's a few brands I wouldn't buy for that very reason, and I'm sorry some buyers didn't check that out before buying theirs.

    I've also owned discontinued sports cars long-term and parts availability is always a concern. Some parts disappeared quickly after production ended, other lasted longer. I doubt FCA will be able to maintain supply of all critical parts unfortunately, and I guess each of us in going to have to determine if we're willing to deal with this or bail.

    Cheme, as far as the expectation that the engine shouldn't consume much oil during break-in, engines with forged internal do that, and reading and following the owner's manual warns owners. The only other thing they could have done is put a big yellow caution sign on the dash to make sure everyone got the message...and they probably should have given most probably do ignore their manuals.

    Jon, I may seem more forgiving than many but the above explains how I came into ownership prepared and my eyes wide open. And I also tend to place more responsibility on the consumer than some might...and the more a consumer does that prior to purchase the happier he's likely to be afterwards.

    Looking forward to getting the Viper out before long. No destinations we're allowed to drive to so I'll probably do a large and glorious circle and back home to park it. The engine basically hasn't consumed oil in the last 35,000 miles but I'm going to check it anyways just so to be safe and so I can say I did.

    Bruce
    2014 SRT Black TA, extreme special occasion fun. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 991.2 Turbo S, fun 3 season DD.

  17. #92
    Enthusiast labtec's Avatar
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    FCA seems to think the old adage still holds true "time heals all wounds" …..even if they screw the customer over. Evidently they forgot how forums tend to remind everyone of FCA's past sins

  18. #93
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    Maybe so. While I'm not a car track rat, I certainly used to be a motorcycle track rat until a couple of years ago and am familiar with break in on high strung engines. Of those bikes the vast majority of mine have been Italian so I'm typically pretty forgiving of "quirks" and high maintenance when when it comes to my toys. The oil consumption I read about for the Gen V engines seemed like a heck of a lot more than break in consumption, but that observation is obviously anecdotal at best.

    Any forum for any vehicle that I've seen brings out the bad usually a lot more than the good and that news spreads like wildfire so this isn't isolated to the viper. Go read up on the Aprilia RSV4 engines failing valve springs and catastrophically grenading motors that weren't even used for track duty. Good service for those bikes is arguably harder to find than vipers IMO if you aren't handy with your own wrenches.

    Maybe FCA auto denying is the standard way of doing things for manufacturers now. I personally don't think it should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    I personally know and track with a lot of Gen V track rats and they have nothing but praise for the car, our dealers and FCA, myself included.

    Why is that? In my case I avoided a first year car and the likelihood of having the issues typical of first year production cars...regardless of manufacturer. Lots of buyers do that and increase their chances of getting a more problem-free car. Many buyers rolled the dice and we heard about every single problem they had, some who posted their problems in every possible thread they could for as long as they could until we all got sick of it. And some of those are just learning impaired because they've ordered first year C8 Corvettes...hey, what could go wrong with that! Roll those dice.

    Add to that the fact that those with problems post on the forum looking for guidance and solutions. Not all owners are on this forum, but those with problems naturally start threads about those problems, and those with relatively problem-free cars don't start threads to say they have nothing to complain about. The impression readers get when reading the forum is naturally going to hear more about problems. And the dealer probably addresses many of those issues quickly and painlessly. Those owners who don't use the forums just take their issues to the dealer and get them fixed. If that doesn't work they seek out forums and post their issues. The forum just doesn't give an accurate picture of problems and owner satisfaction.

    Is there really anyone that didn't know that Dodge has a long history of poor reliability and customer satisfaction?

    Combine that with the car being such a low production and unique model that it seemed particularly important to research the availability of quality service. I did that by contacting members of the local VOA club here in Ontario and found a number of dealers that were recommended. If there wasn't I'd have bought a Porsche GT3. I never assumed or expected Dodge to have qualified local service nation-wide. One of the most frequent questions and complaints here is related to finding quality local service. There's a few brands I wouldn't buy for that very reason, and I'm sorry some buyers didn't check that out before buying theirs.

    I've also owned discontinued sports cars long-term and parts availability is always a concern. Some parts disappeared quickly after production ended, other lasted longer. I doubt FCA will be able to maintain supply of all critical parts unfortunately, and I guess each of us in going to have to determine if we're willing to deal with this or bail.

    Cheme, as far as the expectation that the engine shouldn't consume much oil during break-in, engines with forged internal do that, and reading and following the owner's manual warns owners. The only other thing they could have done is put a big yellow caution sign on the dash to make sure everyone got the message...and they probably should have given most probably do ignore their manuals.

    Jon, I may seem more forgiving than many but the above explains how I came into ownership prepared and my eyes wide open. And I also tend to place more responsibility on the consumer than some might...and the more a consumer does that prior to purchase the happier he's likely to be afterwards.

    Looking forward to getting the Viper out before long. No destinations we're allowed to drive to so I'll probably do a large and glorious circle and back home to park it. The engine basically hasn't consumed oil in the last 35,000 miles but I'm going to check it anyways just so to be safe and so I can say I did.

    Bruce

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    For the record neither of my two Gen 5 Vipers burn one drop of oil. Not one. My ACR did One Lap of America last year, two track events everyday, 4,000 miles street driving and when I got home the oil still looked clean and it was full. I change it every 3,000 miles with Mobil 1 15w50 in the ACR and Mobil 1 or Penzoil 0w40 for my GTS. I always use SRT filters.
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  20. #95
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    I'm glad they took care of this for you.

    In the end it really didn't matter if you had a record for the oil change or not the point was that oil had nothing to do with the failure. I'm not as worried about keeping records for FCA as I am to let the next owner know that my car has been maintained properly

  21. #96
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    I have read in a few posts of people writing that you shouldn't have to have the dealer do your oil changes. I have no personal experience to back this up. But I have been told that all you need is some kind of oil change documentation like from any shop or even receipts from purchasing the oil if you in deed change your own. As it state clearly in the owners manual what FCA requires for your warranty to be valid. Why would someone think that thais would change if their car received the 10 year/100,000 mile extension.

    I myself have had few issues with a couple of my local dealerships with warranty issues. On the flip side I have had more that I was completely satisfied with the out come. At the time I purchased my 2013 the car was a year old and had 2000 miles on it and I did buy the 6 year extended warranty so this mite factor into my experiences.

    None of my issues even compare to what the OP is going thru and I can't even imagine the level of stress and frustration he is going thru. FCA is not without it's faults in this area but I believe we as owners or at least any owner that visits this forum would be well aware of this deficiency in the dealership network. No this doesn't make the situation right by any means but we shouldn't be surprised by it at this point in time. In the end as time go's by this forum will become even more important than it is now. So all you enthusiast why not support the forum and join the club.
    2000 GTS built/Paxton:Sold
    2013 GTS
    2010 SRT10 Coupe

  22. #97
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    112
    I paid for a year when I first bought my car a couple of years ago. The little swag and magazines that you get don’t provide any value for me personally. I won’t ever go to NVE either so nothing added there either.

    Technical advice? Most/all is provided by other members or supporting vendors.

    No other forums I frequent require payment same as this one. Running a forum requires little overhead which is easily supported by ads. All the other extra stuff I don’t really care for and/or don’t want.

    Right, wrong, or indifferent that’s my two cents on why I don’t pay. Feel free to disagree obviously, but if I’m spending money on something it has to provide me with a perceived value.

  23. #98
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2014
    Ontario
    Bruce H.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,348
    Cheme,

    The VOA is the glue that binds this community, runs this forum, and you benefit from it the same as everyone else who recognizes its value and contributes with both a few dollars and priceless knowledge. The sponsors are only here because of the support of the members, without whom there would be no forum. Membership fees don't pay for NVEs, attending members pay full freight, many attend, others don't. Those who invest their time and money in the Viper community appreciate it when others who benefit from it do as well.

    Does this VOA forum not provide you with perceived value? Of course it does. And you might just find as a member that participating in some of your local VOA region's activities could further add to your ownership experience. The VOA is an indispensable asset for owners in so many ways, and having this community even helps support the car's strong resale values for all owners.

    There's no obligation for anyone to be a paid member but since FCA no longer financially supports the VOA it's in everyone's best interest to help keep the community active and together as much as possible, perhaps even more so at your local club level. So thanks to all those that help support and maintain our great community!

    Bruce
    Last edited by Bruce H.; 03-25-2020 at 11:19 PM.
    2014 SRT Black TA, extreme special occasion fun. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 991.2 Turbo S, fun 3 season DD.

  24. #99
    FCA is a hundred billion dollar corporation. They dont give a flying rats ass about us its sad to say. (Mark Trostle and Ralph Gilles excepted) Especially with a discontinued product line.

    NEXT ENGINE BLOWN WITHOUT OIL CHANGE RECORDS:

    Go to an Indy shop and have them document the Correct oil changes back dated. Engine covered - Voila!
    2014 Stryker Green GTS Viper (every option!) all carbon fiber interior and TA exterior, 2014 Range Rover Aintree green Autobiography, 2014 White Range Rover Full size (wife) 2005Nissan Xterra Off-road

  25. #100
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2013
    Colorado/Montana/Utah/Wyoming
    ViperGeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Greenwood Village, CO
    Posts
    2,897
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    Cheme,

    The VOA is the glue that binds this community, runs this forum, and you benefit from it the same as everyone else who recognizes its value and contributes with both a few dollars and priceless knowledge. The sponsors are only here because of the support of the members, without whom there would be no forum. Membership fees don't pay for NVEs, attending members pay full freight, many attend, others don't. Those who invest their time and money in the Viper community appreciate it when others who benefit from it do as well.

    Does this VOA forum not provide you with perceived value? Of course it does. And you might just find as a member that participating in some of your local VOA region's activities could further add to your ownership experience. The VOA is an indispensable asset for owners in so many ways, and having this community even helps support the car's strong resale values for all owners.

    There's no obligation for anyone to be a paid member but since FCA no longer financially supports the VOA it's in everyone's best interest to help keep the community active and together as much as possible, perhaps even more so at your local club level. So thanks to all those that help support and maintain our great community!

    Bruce
    Bingo! People buy a $100,000 car and then are too cheap to join the club for $100! That in my opinion is stupid. The club needs memberships to keep this site, the magazine and other stuff going. It provides access to Viper engineers and the local regions put on great events. Come on give me a break and for a $100 join the club. You don't think the advice you get from this forum isn't worth the money? Maybe us veterans should charge these people $5 for every answer to the never ending technical questions. How to threads should only be available to members. etc. Then maybe people would say "I guess the $100 is worth it."
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
    2008 Vert in Viper Bright Blue with silver stripes.
    2014 GTS in white with gunmetal stripes. I'm also one of the original 100's


 
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