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  1. #1
    VOA Mamba Member
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    Expel vs ceramic coat

    Whats timeline on expel?When should it be replaced?....Would ceramic coat be a good substitute...Im thinking CC would make paint look better but not near as protective.My expel is 5 years old.
    Last edited by aspman; 11-23-2020 at 08:48 PM.

  2. #2
    If it’s not peeling or fading why replace it. Expel extreme is a 10 year warranty....not sure what the warranty details were 5 years ago.

  3. #3
    Enthusiast zee's Avatar
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    Xpel film provides 8-13 mil of protection. Ceramic coat is just a substance added to help keep the shine, the car less dirty and much easier to wash as the water will just bead off. I did xpel then ceramic coat on top of it.
    Last edited by zee; 11-24-2020 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Wrong info
    Current: 2016 GTC ACR-E (1 of 1) | 2019 Performante Spyder
    Past: 2015 650s | 2011 R8 V10 6MT | 2016 Charger Hellcat | 2014 Orange TA #55/93 | 2000 NSX CTSC - 1 of 44 | 97 B&W RT/10 - 1 of 53 | 2003 Z06

  4. #4
    Took my expel off earlier this year. 6 years on the viper. It was yellowing and lifting up in some spots. It was a pain to remove but with proper tools and techniques, it came off without damage. PPF is a physical barrier that protects against scratches and other physical damage. Cerramic coatings are not. Ceramic coatings are a glorified sealant. They do not protect against scratches/damage etc.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zee View Post
    Xpel film provides 10 mm of protection. Ceramic coat is just a substance added to help keep the shine, the car less dirty and much easier to wash as the water will just bead off. I did xpel then ceramic coat on top of it
    It's not 10mm thick.
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  6. #6
    Enthusiast zee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catwood View Post
    It's not 10mm thick.
    Yes you are right sorry - it’s 8-13 mil
    Current: 2016 GTC ACR-E (1 of 1) | 2019 Performante Spyder
    Past: 2015 650s | 2011 R8 V10 6MT | 2016 Charger Hellcat | 2014 Orange TA #55/93 | 2000 NSX CTSC - 1 of 44 | 97 B&W RT/10 - 1 of 53 | 2003 Z06

  7. #7
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    yeah im getting some peeling around door edges..I dont track and think Strykler purple paint would really pop without Expel and put on Ceramic Coating

  8. #8
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    I have no experience with ceramic, but when I went in to have it done, the detailer talked me into graphene coating. Supposed to last longer and prevent water spots better. He had panels done half with ceramic and half graphene. After months of washing, the graphene was holding up much better. Might be worth looking into. As stated above, does very little to protect the paint from debris and chips/scratches, but keeps it looking clean and washes easy.
    That being said, the graphene coating on my car looks great. The actual product used was SPS Graphene.

  9. #9
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    Ill research it...thanks!

  10. #10
    Enthusiast zee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspman View Post
    yeah im getting some peeling around door edges..I dont track and think Strykler purple paint would really pop without Expel and put on Ceramic Coating
    Just get the xpel PPF redone. I would not drive around raw - the PPF does a pretty damn good job keeping you from getting rock chips and protects your paint. Go to an experienced installer and get it done right - the paint should still pop with the ppf. I always do paint correction, then the PPF, then ceramic coat on top of the PPF.
    Current: 2016 GTC ACR-E (1 of 1) | 2019 Performante Spyder
    Past: 2015 650s | 2011 R8 V10 6MT | 2016 Charger Hellcat | 2014 Orange TA #55/93 | 2000 NSX CTSC - 1 of 44 | 97 B&W RT/10 - 1 of 53 | 2003 Z06

  11. #11
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    Thanks!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zee View Post
    Xpel film provides 8-13 mil of protection. Ceramic coat is just a substance added to help keep the shine, the car less dirty and much easier to wash as the water will just bead off. I did xpel then ceramic coat on top of it.
    Bingo

  13. #13
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    So whats advantage to doing Ceramic over expel?...how effective is it?
    Last edited by aspman; 11-24-2020 at 06:38 PM.

  14. #14
    Enthusiast zee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspman View Post
    So whats advantage to doing Ceramic over expel?...how effective is it?
    Do you mean on top of the xpel PPF? If so, it definitely helps keep your car shinier and much easier to clean.
    Current: 2016 GTC ACR-E (1 of 1) | 2019 Performante Spyder
    Past: 2015 650s | 2011 R8 V10 6MT | 2016 Charger Hellcat | 2014 Orange TA #55/93 | 2000 NSX CTSC - 1 of 44 | 97 B&W RT/10 - 1 of 53 | 2003 Z06

  15. #15
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    Graphene was mentioned...can it go over Expel?

  16. #16
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    I will chime in here. I have over 12years experience in professional paint corrections and coatings. I own a car that has been featured in Hotord/mopar muscle. I own a Gen V and have been told its probably some of the best paint and detailing some have ever seen. I have done several members cars also. Basically I know my stuff. Here are facts:

    Ceramic provides protection, like a better wax. If you dont care for it properly, say goodbye to your " 5 year coating". It is a coating that requires maintenance and re application of a top layer after 12 months, considering its environment and care. I have never put ceramic on my Viper or any of my show cars. If you have a proper paint correction ( not my buddy buffed it with his wool pad and dewalt grinder) and conduct proper washing and use a high end wax, you will get a better depth than a ceramic.
    Ceramic does NOT prevent chips, scratches etc. Some will argue that it does, I would say it delays spyder web scratching but will not prevent on its own (2 bucket wash etc is needed).

    Xpel, Suntech etc PROTECT paint and scratches, to a point. My viper and Challenger have Xpel on the front ends. With a proper paint correction and application, this is nearly invisible and most people will not pick it up with the naked eye in teh sun.

    I will get some that will defend ceramics, say I dont know what i am talknig about, etc. I do have ceramic on my daily drivers and my parents daily. I do this because ceramic, will last much longer than a wax and traditional sealant, but I also maintain it properly. Without a ceramic boost every few washes, it will not bead water like every infomercial we see about ceramic, auto car washes strip ceramic at a much faster rate due to the harsh soaps. Graphine, I have recently tested on my dads jeep. It it outside 24/7. 4 weeks in and he cannot tell a difference from the ceramic I did last year.

    Ceramic is the newest hot thing. If you are getting a proper paint correction and ceramic I suppose a $2k bill is legit but DO NOT expect it to be everything all the companies say it is.

    DM me for more info if you want honest answers for paint care and corrections

  17. #17
    Enthusiast quickster2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevert View Post
    I will chime in here. I have over 12years experience in professional paint corrections and coatings. I own a car that has been featured in Hotord/mopar muscle. I own a Gen V and have been told its probably some of the best paint and detailing some have ever seen. I have done several members cars also. Basically I know my stuff. Here are facts:

    Ceramic provides protection, like a better wax. If you dont care for it properly, say goodbye to your " 5 year coating". It is a coating that requires maintenance and re application of a top layer after 12 months, considering its environment and care. I have never put ceramic on my Viper or any of my show cars. If you have a proper paint correction ( not my buddy buffed it with his wool pad and dewalt grinder) and conduct proper washing and use a high end wax, you will get a better depth than a ceramic.
    Ceramic does NOT prevent chips, scratches etc. Some will argue that it does, I would say it delays spyder web scratching but will not prevent on its own (2 bucket wash etc is needed).

    Xpel, Suntech etc PROTECT paint and scratches, to a point. My viper and Challenger have Xpel on the front ends. With a proper paint correction and application, this is nearly invisible and most people will not pick it up with the naked eye in teh sun.

    I will get some that will defend ceramics, say I dont know what i am talknig about, etc. I do have ceramic on my daily drivers and my parents daily. I do this because ceramic, will last much longer than a wax and traditional sealant, but I also maintain it properly. Without a ceramic boost every few washes, it will not bead water like every infomercial we see about ceramic, auto car washes strip ceramic at a much faster rate due to the harsh soaps. Graphine, I have recently tested on my dads jeep. It it outside 24/7. 4 weeks in and he cannot tell a difference from the ceramic I did last year.

    Ceramic is the newest hot thing. If you are getting a proper paint correction and ceramic I suppose a $2k bill is legit but DO NOT expect it to be everything all the companies say it is.

    DM me for more info if you want honest answers for paint care and corrections
    Well said!!! Good advice to all.
    2008 Venom Red Coupe -- Sold moving toward a GEN V.
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  18. #18
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    Thsnks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1......can you comment on applying Ceramic over Expel and why its a good augment.

  19. #19
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    Thsnks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1......can you comment on applying Ceramic over Expel and why its a good augment.

  20. #20
    I've got Xpel on my '16 GTC and after 3 recent track days and quite a bit of spirited driving through country/mountain roads, it has held up quite well. I have a couple of blemishes on the film that would have certainly damaged the paint. Ceramic coat would have not provided any protection at all.
    Blake

    2016 1 of 1 Viper GTC Prefix 9.0 Stroker Stage 2 Arrow

  21. #21
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    Think of it as a fancy wax. Have at it
    But I will caution, if you are asking this question I would not suggest you personally apply it. Ceramic, if not applied properly will harden with “high spots” and one of the only ways to remove tht would be a cutting process( buffer pads). Which you should never do on a film... heat vs platic =melts
    If you want a “dummy proof” coating on the film, just add boost every wash. It will let the water bead, make it silky smooth and get what I believe what you want done. Ceramic will NOT make your film better.... its a fancy wax. If your film alone doesnt stop a stone chip, having applied the ceramic would have made no difference.

  22. #22
    Enthusiast Mccarlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevert View Post
    Think of it as a fancy wax. Have at it
    But I will caution, if you are asking this question I would not suggest you personally apply it. Ceramic, if not applied properly will harden with “high spots” and one of the only ways to remove tht would be a cutting process( buffer pads). Which you should never do on a film... heat vs platic =melts
    If you want a “dummy proof” coating on the film, just add boost every wash. It will let the water bead, make it silky smooth and get what I believe what you want done. Ceramic will NOT make your film better.... its a fancy wax. If your film alone doesnt stop a stone chip, having applied the ceramic would have made no difference.
    I think what he was originally asking, correct me if im wrong, is if adding a ceramic coating on top of the XPEL if it will make the paint pop more. He mentions how maybe the XPEL could dull the look of the high gloss paints.

    I myself have full Xpel coated on my car, with ceramic on top (from the previous owner) but i have a Matte finish (anodized carbon) so i cannot comment if it doesnt give the shine of the paint with Xpel on, as it does off.
    2016 Anodized Carbon ACR-Extreme - 1 of 1 Build

  23. #23
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    Gotcha ... no. Making paint “pop” is about prep. The film finish is the finish. Its what is underneath that matters. Keep in mind the film will distort the paint slightly, but to most this is not even visible.
    Last edited by stevert; 11-25-2020 at 12:31 PM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by stevert View Post
    I will chime in here. I have over 12years experience in professional paint corrections and coatings. I own a car that has been featured in Hotord/mopar muscle. I own a Gen V and have been told its probably some of the best paint and detailing some have ever seen. I have done several members cars also. Basically I know my stuff. Here are facts:

    Ceramic provides protection, like a better wax. If you dont care for it properly, say goodbye to your " 5 year coating". It is a coating that requires maintenance and re application of a top layer after 12 months, considering its environment and care. I have never put ceramic on my Viper or any of my show cars. If you have a proper paint correction ( not my buddy buffed it with his wool pad and dewalt grinder) and conduct proper washing and use a high end wax, you will get a better depth than a ceramic.
    Ceramic does NOT prevent chips, scratches etc. Some will argue that it does, I would say it delays spyder web scratching but will not prevent on its own (2 bucket wash etc is needed).

    Xpel, Suntech etc PROTECT paint and scratches, to a point. My viper and Challenger have Xpel on the front ends. With a proper paint correction and application, this is nearly invisible and most people will not pick it up with the naked eye in teh sun.

    I will get some that will defend ceramics, say I dont know what i am talknig about, etc. I do have ceramic on my daily drivers and my parents daily. I do this because ceramic, will last much longer than a wax and traditional sealant, but I also maintain it properly. Without a ceramic boost every few washes, it will not bead water like every infomercial we see about ceramic, auto car washes strip ceramic at a much faster rate due to the harsh soaps. Graphine, I have recently tested on my dads jeep. It it outside 24/7. 4 weeks in and he cannot tell a difference from the ceramic I did last year.

    Ceramic is the newest hot thing. If you are getting a proper paint correction and ceramic I suppose a $2k bill is legit but DO NOT expect it to be everything all the companies say it is.

    DM me for more info if you want honest answers for paint care and corrections
    I do a fair amount of wet sanding, compounding etc. to nock down fresh orange peel and to glass out paint. I absolutely agree. Ceramic coatings are such a marketing gimmick and money grab. It's absurd how prevalent it has gotten. Give me a good poly paint sealant, wax, and proper washing/care routines any day of the week over ceramic coatings. I silently judge those people and those "ceramic coating installers" who prey on the unknowledgeable people with their sales pitches.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SLP View Post
    I do a fair amount of wet sanding, compounding etc. to nock down fresh orange peel and to glass out paint. I absolutely agree. Ceramic coatings are such a marketing gimmick and money grab. It's absurd how prevalent it has gotten. Give me a good poly paint sealant, wax, and proper washing/care routines any day of the week over ceramic coatings. I silently judge those people and those "ceramic coating installers" who prey on the unknowledgeable people with their sales pitches.
    I've said the exact same thing for many years and have always had the proponents loudly disagree. This is a scam that detailers love to promote because they can charge the end users for 8 hours of "prep" before splashing on the miracle ceramic coating. Of course, everyone who has paid the exorbitant charge is not going to say they were hoodwinked so they also extol the virtues of it as well. In the end, it doesn't protect from scratches or swirls any better, it has to be "renewed" to keep up the "protection" and worst of all....doesn't look any better than a $25.00 sealant from Pep boys. But then again if you're incapable of throwing a quality sealant on your car twice a year.....pay the $1200.00.....


 
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