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  1. #1

    Pulling off a stud Need expert advice

    Have to pull off several studs and I figured there would be no better group of individuals that were practiced in this art to ask for advice...

    Ok all jokes aside, decided to upgrade all my wheel studs to ARPs after snapping 2 front lugs last week, and having several more seize up as I went to remove the wheels yesterday - the only way these ones are coming off is by snapping.

    Just curious what tool you guys use push the original studs out of the hub?
    I've already got this Lisle 22800 on the way to help with the installing the new studs.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ETUD22/


    I just hammered out the previous 2, but I know that's abusive to the bearing - already got a new complete hub with bearing delivered to hold as a spare just incase I did some damage to it.
    Looking for a more refined way of going about this.
    20210717_134349.jpg
    2017 ACR-E
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    Man that sucks dude!
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

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    You need to remove the Brake caliper and get some cable ties and suspend it from the A arms, remove the disc so that you can get to the Hub. I would not recommend hitting them out with a hammer as the shock can transfer down into the hub knuckle and A arms which are the weak points on a Viper. Best way is to remove the wheel bearing from the Cast aluminium knuckle and press those out in a strong vice or hydraulic press. I use a couple of small strong walled sockets to place over the back of the wheel stud then using the vice tighten until the stud splines pop out of the hub. I have done it on my Gen 2 fitting the longer race wheel studs.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboy 18 View Post
    You need to remove the Brake caliper and get some cable ties and suspend it from the A arms, remove the disc so that you can get to the Hub. I would not recommend hitting them out with a hammer as the shock can transfer down into the hub knuckle and A arms which are the weak points on a Viper. Best way is to remove the wheel bearing from the Cast aluminium knuckle and press those out in a strong vice or hydraulic press. I use a couple of small strong walled sockets to place over the back of the wheel stud then using the vice tighten until the stud splines pop out of the hub. I have done it on my Gen 2 fitting the longer race wheel studs.
    Just to add to this... I removed the hubs and tried to use the cheap 6-ton shop press from Harbor Freight. It wasn't enough. I actually broke the press and returned it.

    As far as bracing, like Fatboy mentioned, you need something cylindrical and hollow in the middle (i.e. socket), and I found it needed to be a very specific size.
    '13 GTS

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    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Holy crap, this looks like a whole lot of suck.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

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    I have a very strong 6" jaw bench Vice, this is a couple of pics to give you the Idea.

    This was pressing a new one in




    You can tape a couple of hex nuts either side of the back of the stud and then place hub in the vice and squeeze it out You can also use a bit of heat on the hub and freeze spray on the stud to help squeeze it out but I don't mean heating the hub up red hot, just a gentle warm around the stud hole with a small propane torch. too much heat and you will melt the grease in the bearing.

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    I used the Mopar stud tool mentioned in the service manual. Worked perfectly.
    2016 ACR "ACR Steve White" by Woodhouse
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    Here are Doug Shelby's instructions for his titanium studs (I run these myself)
    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/04...f?v=1607363355
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers View Post
    Here are Doug Shelby's instructions for his titanium studs (I run these myself)
    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/04...f?v=1607363355
    Do you have an extra set you'd sell? I talked to Doug today and he has no intentions of making them again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers View Post
    Here are Doug Shelby's instructions for his titanium studs (I run these myself)
    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/04...f?v=1607363355
    Do you use titanium nuts as well? Prob a dumb question since I know you're all aout cutting weight. That reminds me, you did TI springs too right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by serpent View Post
    Do you use titanium nuts as well? Prob a dumb question since I know you're all aout cutting weight. That reminds me, you did TI springs too right?
    Yeah, all three. Still waiting to install the springs, had to get different sized seats since they are for an ACR shock and my car runs MSC.
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

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    Enthusiast Jack B's Avatar
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    Some localized heat might help
    Self tuned Stock/HPT 10.85@130 mph (DA= +1000)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboy 18 View Post
    I probably will, but was looking for titanium to go with my titanium lug nuts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 13COBRA View Post
    I probably will, but was looking for titanium to go with my titanium lug nuts.
    Try here
    https://www.mhtitanium.com/titanium-...RoCRmYQAvD_BwE Will most likely be a special order 1/2-20 thread and open wheel nuts, might want to see if folks are up for a group buy and get a better discount.
    Last edited by Fatboy 18; 07-26-2021 at 03:30 PM.

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    Enthusiast darbgnik's Avatar
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    Looks like the tool J-45270 mentioned in Doug's instructions is just the clamp/press portion of most ball joint press tools.

    Seeing as how well my ball joint tool worked on old rusted parts, I'd be real confident doing lug studs with it, as long as it fit.
    Brad Williams
    2015 Competition Blue SRT - V/E DSC Suspension - TA1 Aero - StopTech's - SW2's with Corsas, Hummer H1, 70 Dodge Charger, BMW R1200GS Rallye, Ducati 999S, etc

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    Beware of titanium on titanium. The coefficient of friction can get very high for unlubricated joints making most of the installation torque go towards rotation instead of stretch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperSRT View Post
    Beware of titanium on titanium. The coefficient of friction can get very high for unlubricated joints making most of the installation torque go towards rotation instead of stretch.
    Interesting. I would've assumed (wrongly I suppose) that titanium on titanium was safer than titanium on steel.

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    Weather right or wrong, I always use a smear of copper slip grease on my wheel nuts.

    You can't beat a bit of Lube on your Nuts
    Last edited by Fatboy 18; 07-26-2021 at 04:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboy 18 View Post
    Weather right or wrong, I always use a smear of copper slip grease on my wheel nuts.

    You can't beat a bit of Lube on your Nuts
    As long as the applied torque is adjusted accordingly. The torque spec is intended to achieve adequate bolt stretch and clamp load with friction coefficients as intended. Adding lube to a intended dry application will increase the stretch and clamp load, and thus may cause premature failure of the bolt in tensile mode. A full analysis for torsional and tensile is required in order to determine if failure is imminent. As an engineer I would never recommend deviating from the specification unless you have knowledge of an engineered solution in the new situation. For instance a titanium stud would require a different (lower) applied torque to provide the appropriate stretch for titaniums mechanical properties (friction at assembly, modulus of elasticity and tensile strength) without failing. Here is a link to a quick comparison (note tensile strength may differ by specific metallurgy) https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/m...ties-and-uses/ Also note titanium dry friction coefficient can approach .8 or .9, which mean little of the applied torque will lead to clamp load. Not a good thing.

  21. #21
    Enthusiast Hawk's Avatar
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    I used this tie rod end tool. I did need to file a little off each side of the jaw opening so the end of the stud would clear thru. Crank it tight with a wrench and if it doesn’t move give it a little tap(the nut end of the tool) with a hammer and crank down again. Remove the hub off the car and clamp the hub disk part in a vice to hold it still. To install the new stud put the stud in the hub, get a stack of washers and an open end nut and crank it on until it seats. It helps to hit it with a cordless impact gun to get the spline to engage into the hub before you put the wrench to it. Make sure you use a torque wrench on the lug nuts (107 ft/lbs.) do not use lube or antiseize if you use the full torque setting as the lubricant requires you to use a lighter torque setting. Jon B has better lug nuts that have a long neck and are a bigger nut size than the stock ones (13/16”). After the first drive check the torque again lots of times it seats the stud fully after a drive. Since I changed mine and always use a torque wrench I have never had a problem. I only bought an aftermarket ones to OEM specs( Dorman 610-395 Dorman Wheel Studs | Summit Racing ) . They are plenty strong if wheels are installed correctly ,by hand using a torque wrench ( unless you have a Prefix 9L and professionally track the car)
    OEMTOOLS 27276 Tie Rod End Remover (weselltools.com)
    http://www.viperpartsrack.com/viper-wheels/lug-nuts
    Caliper mounting bolts 85 ft/lbs.
    Hub to knuckle bolts 45 ft/lb.



    P1014542.jpg
    P1014543.jpg
    P1014545.jpg
    Last edited by Hawk; 07-26-2021 at 06:52 PM.
    2014 TA orange #55

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I used this tie rod end tool. I did need to file a little off each side of the jaw opening so the end of the stud would clear thru. Crank it tight with a wrench and if it doesn’t move give it a little tap(the nut end of the tool) with a hammer and crank down again. Remove the hub off the car and clamp the hub disk part in a vice to hold it still. To install the new stud put the stud in the hub, get a stack of washers and an open end nut and crank it on until it seats. It helps to hit it with a cordless impact gun to get the spline to engage into the hub before you put the wrench to it. Make sure you use a torque wrench on the lug nuts (107 ft/lbs.) do not use lube or antiseize if you use the full torque setting as the lubricant requires you to use a lighter torque setting. Jon B has better lug nuts that have a long neck and are a bigger nut size than the stock ones (13/16”). After the first drive check the torque again lots of times it seats the stud fully after a drive. Since I changed mine and always use a torque wrench I have never had a problem. I only bought an aftermarket ones to OEM specs( Dorman 610-395 Dorman Wheel Studs | Summit Racing ) . They are plenty strong if wheels are installed correctly ,by hand using a torque wrench ( unless you have a Prefix 9L and professionally track the car)
    OEMTOOLS 27276 Tie Rod End Remover (weselltools.com)
    http://www.viperpartsrack.com/viper-wheels/lug-nuts
    Caliper mounting bolts 85 ft/lbs.
    Hub to knuckle bolts 45 ft/lb.
    Awesome! Everything I needed! If anyone is interested I can write up and document the process. Thanks again for the input all around.
    2017 ACR-E
    2004 Lambo Murcielago -- Gated Manual, 2004 Challenge Stradale
    2018 991.2 GT3 -- Manual, 2019 Raptor

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    Enthusiast Hawk's Avatar
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    2014 TA orange #55

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    Yes, absolutely, write up and document. Always room for more info.

    Thank you sir

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Viper98 View Post
    Yes, absolutely, write up and document. Always room for more info.

    Thank you sir
    So I completed the job on the 2 front wheels and it was a right pain in the ass. I started to document the process but dropped that not too long in.
    Short answer is - these ARP lugs "Wheel Stud ARP Racing Long 3" Lug Bolt Viper 92-17 × 30" are way too long for the ACR-E, and what happens is that any sort of slight angle you had in the stud when pressing it into place gets amplified over that excessively long distance - net result is the brake rotor doesn't have enough clearance in it to accomodate the exaggerated angles of the studs.

    And so began the process of removing and repeatedly trying to reseat the studs to get them to sit straight.

    Result was: broken 6" vice, shattered Lissle 22800 tool, multiple broken studs and lugs, and damaged threads on the studs that did finally line up enough, finally got the fronts on and got the brake rotor to slide on (had to basically force it on and it sheared some of the threads off the new studs in the process, fortunately the nuts still thread and hold perfectly.

    So moral of the story is, don't get 3" studs for a stock ACR-E, unless you have spacers or other reasons to go that long.


    I used a 'metal cutter' dremel attachment to slice the notch into the ARP studs so that I could start the pressing/pulling through process without any angular pressure on the stud. Every tactic I tried to pull the studs through, they just wouldn't sit 100% straight. Easiest way was get it started with a few light taps with a hammer, then zip it through with lissle tool and an impact. Lissle tool shattered after about 12-15 uses. The stud face would be sitting what looked like perfectly flat against the back of the hub, but any slight angle grows over that distance.
    Tried using my vise to 'press' them into place, and completely shattered the vise, a huge chunk of metal where the worm gear drives it cracked off, it basically cracked in half.

    OEMTOOLS 27276 Tie Rod End Remover works perfectly, just take a dremel to it to open it up a 1-2 mm to get enough clearance for it to fit around the stud head. Pushes the old studs out with ease (note, the ARPs are so damn long that the only way to get them out will be with a hammer!)

    Going forward, when those hubs are ready for preemptive replacement at the end of this season, I'm going to replace them with new OEM hubs and bearings, and will likely just go with OEM studs (which come out and go in like an absolute breeze), will use antiseize, and a much lower torque value, with more diligence to ensure I don't impact them in place at all.

    1 thumb down for the ARPs for being too long (my problem, not theirs) and also for requiring notching.
    1 thumb up for the ARPs for withstanding some heavy impacting without snapping (yet).



    Just to circle back with brief instructions - getting the hubs off the front is really fast and easy (under 20 mins).
    Jack up, remove wheel, remove 2 hex bolts holding brake caliper in place (85 ftlb to reinstall). Set caliper aside SUPPORTED, not hanging by the lines.
    Remove brake rotor.
    On the back of the hub there are 4 hex bolts, I believe 15mm or so. Remove those (45 ftlb to reinstall).
    On the back, very center of the hub (inside side) there's a torx bit, smaller torx. It hooks the ABS tone wheel to the hub. Remove that --- DON'T need to remove the giant ~33mm nut holding the bearing in there, just remove the torx bit on the backside (might need to put a 33mm bit on the hub just to prevent it from rotating while you remove it).
    At that point the hub is completely free.
    Torx tone wheel bolt is 13 ftlb to reinstall.
    Last edited by CarbonDan; 08-01-2021 at 05:50 PM.
    2017 ACR-E
    2004 Lambo Murcielago -- Gated Manual, 2004 Challenge Stradale
    2018 991.2 GT3 -- Manual, 2019 Raptor


 
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