Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33
  1. #1
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    UAE - Dubai
    Posts
    8

    Engine Oil Temperature

    Hi everyone, this is my first post in the forum.

    Since I had my ACR 1:28 a year ago, I have tracked it for 7 times.
    Its equipped with ARH headers with no catalysts, stock mufflers and Arrow racing PCM. I’ve changed the OEM engine oil cooler lines with aftermarket lines. And am running Motul 5W50.

    I always keep an eye on “engine oil temp” and “coolant temp”. After two or three moderate laps at Yas Marina Circuit, the engine oil temp is reaching almost 230-240F. When I compare it to my friend’s stock 2013 GTS, after 8 laps he is barely reaching 215-220F. (Outside temp 77-90 F) (coolant temp: ~210-220)

    I asked few friends about it and they’re saying am over worried about it. But my only concern the oil temp is rising really quick within few laps.

    Anyone had this before?

  2. #2
    Enthusiast stradman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    1,154
    Quote Originally Posted by ACR128 View Post
    Hi everyone, this is my first post in the forum.

    Since I had my ACR 1:28 a year ago, I have tracked it for 7 times.
    Its equipped with ARH headers with no catalysts, stock mufflers and Arrow racing PCM. I’ve changed the OEM engine oil cooler lines with aftermarket lines. And am running Motul 5W50.

    I always keep an eye on “engine oil temp” and “coolant temp”. After two or three moderate laps at Yas Marina Circuit, the engine oil temp is reaching almost 230-240F. When I compare it to my friend’s stock 2013 GTS, after 8 laps he is barely reaching 215-220F. (Outside temp 77-90 F) (coolant temp: ~210-220)

    I asked few friends about it and they’re saying am over worried about it. But my only concern the oil temp is rising really quick within few laps.

    Anyone had this before?
    Try running a different oil. In the past on track(before I went to 9.0L) I did find I had increased temps when it was hot outside say 30 degrees. And funny enough I was running Motul 5w50. I can't say whether that was the cause but now I run mobile 1 10-60 and never have problems with temp on track. Worth a try perhaps.

  3. #3
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2019
    Georgia
    BSLSK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    284
    This thread would be worth the read for you https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...hlight=hubbell

    I'd also have to agree with Stradman. You should try running 15W-50 as that is the proven oil weight for tracked Vipers.
    2014 GTS

  4. #4
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by ACR128 View Post
    Hi everyone, this is my first post in the forum.

    Since I had my ACR 1:28 a year ago, I have tracked it for 7 times.
    Its equipped with ARH headers with no catalysts, stock mufflers and Arrow racing PCM. I’ve changed the OEM engine oil cooler lines with aftermarket lines. And am running Motul 5W50.

    I always keep an eye on “engine oil temp” and “coolant temp”. After two or three moderate laps at Yas Marina Circuit, the engine oil temp is reaching almost 230-240F. When I compare it to my friend’s stock 2013 GTS, after 8 laps he is barely reaching 215-220F. (Outside temp 77-90 F) (coolant temp: ~210-220)

    I asked few friends about it and they’re saying am over worried about it. But my only concern the oil temp is rising really quick within few laps.

    Anyone had this before?
    240 engine oil temp is fine. Just run good oil like Motul 300 or Royal Purple or something.
    Plenty of cars run +260 EO temps all day long with no problems.
    Honestly, at those temps, 5W50 may be too thick.

    You're probably just faster than your friend is all.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

  5. #5
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2015
    Arizona
    Arizona Vipers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Paradise Valley
    Posts
    5,030
    240 is fine, I get to 260 all the time. You probably hold 2nd gear longer than your friend.
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

  6. #6
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2019
    NY/CT
    Gen5snake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    575
    Also keep in mind that your friends GTS isn't fighting all the downforce your ACR is. Your engine is working harder.

  7. #7
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    1,630
    Op, how hard are you running the car, if your friend has low oil temps are they even running fast times?

    I always think about that when someone says their oil temps are lowyet they are 20+ seconds off the record time at laguna seca, 1:28 record, while they're clocking 1:50 which is pretty slow.

  8. #8
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by Gen5snake View Post
    Also keep in mind that your friends GTS isn't fighting all the downforce your ACR is. Your engine is working harder.
    They're both (assuming equal driving) working just as hard. The engine is making 645 hp- GTS or ACR with a parachute. There is a difference, but probably insignificant and isn't because it has more drag. The ACR is, in theory, faster through the turns, so it spends more time in the straights under high load and gets on the gas earlier and brakes later and blah blah blah. None of that really matters though. Long story short, it's a timed session, not a distance thing so it's the same engine going WOT then down to zero, a little throttle and WOT again over and over and over again for equally as long so it won't much matter.

    Would be interesting (though a complete waste of time) to compare ACR vs GTS gas mileage.
    Would also be interesting to compare brake pad wear too. I bet the ACR uses a tiny bit more even though it has the help of drag.

    At the end of the day, I almost guarantee it's driving. It's like when people on Corvette Forums tell me they tracked their Z06 and it has no overheating issues while I'm watching good drivers get to 300 degrees on lap 2.
    Last edited by Lawineer; 08-09-2021 at 05:19 PM.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

  9. #9
    VOA Member
    since 2014
    Southern California
    RedTanRT/10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Dana Point
    Posts
    1,570
    ACR128, lot's of good comments above. My comp coupe can run as high as 260 on a hot day in the California desert. Much has to do with; outside temps, type of track and gear selection. Like other's have mentioned, you should run 15-50 oil, not sure why you'd be running 5-50 in Dubai? BTW, the Corvette guys get oil temps up to 300 or more.
    1994 Red/Tan RT/10, '99 red ACR- sold, '06 Red/Silver Coupe-RIP, '06 Red/Silver Coupe - Sold, '08 Red/Silver ACR-C sold, 2006 Comp Coupe C-92

  10. #10
    Enthusiast darbgnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    1,631
    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers View Post
    240 is fine, I get to 260 all the time. You probably hold 2nd gear longer than your friend.
    Good point. When we ran our local track in reverse, I spent twice as much time in second gear, with much higher oil temps.
    Brad Williams
    2015 Competition Blue SRT - V/E DSC Suspension - TA1 Aero - StopTech's - SW2's with Corsas, Hummer H1, 70 Dodge Charger, BMW R1200GS Rallye, Ducati 999S, etc

  11. #11
    VOA Member
    since 2014
    Central North Florida
    98intrigue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Clearwater, FL
    Posts
    1,508
    Another thing to note is there's been evidence that the Arrow PCM gets the oil temps up quicker/higher than the OEM PCM. Not sure if you feel comfortable swapping back to the OEM PCM to compare given your mods though.
    Ryan - 14 Stryker Green Nth Moto TT/Heads/Cam
    Past - 14 Stryker Green VE Stage II Heads/Cam, '16 ACR-E, '14 Anodized Carbon, '14 TA, Orange '03 Paxton vert w/coupe rear, Black '06 coupe w/SSG accents

  12. #12
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    160
    These modern high quality oils can run up to 300*f without major concern. 240*f is nothing. Just makes sure you do more frequent oil changes when running 250*+. The protection at those temps is absolutely still there, but they do not last as long. I forget the exact ratio but it's something like oil service life will be reduced by one-half for every 10°C (~18°F) increase in temperature over the base value (~220*f) due to oxidation.
    Your friendly neighborhood certified driver coach.
    White TA #7
    ApexObsessed.com

  13. #13
    I see 260* oil in Houston in the summer after 5+ laps. Lots of 2nd gear on my local track, and I have the Arrow PCM, which I doubt helps as Ryan mentioned. I run 15w50 as well.
    '13 GTS

  14. #14
    Enthusiast Old School's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    498
    These oil temps got me wondering, since the oil temp sensor is after the cooler, what's the oil temp before the cooler?

  15. #15
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    These oil temps got me wondering, since the oil temp sensor is after the cooler, what's the oil temp before the cooler?
    Higher.


    That is odd though. It's the sensor normally in the pan? Or am I misremembering? I'm guessing I'm misremembering because otherwise the car would be really hot cruising arond.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

  16. #16
    Enthusiast GTS Dean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Braunfels, TX
    Posts
    1,323
    At high loads, your oil is probably doing as much cooling as the radiator is. Good oil has more capacity for heat than radiator coolant.
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!

  17. #17
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2019
    NY/CT
    Gen5snake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    575
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    They're both (assuming equal driving) working just as hard. The engine is making 645 hp- GTS or ACR with a parachute. There is a difference, but probably insignificant and isn't because it has more drag. The ACR is, in theory, faster through the turns, so it spends more time in the straights under high load and gets on the gas earlier and brakes later and blah blah blah. None of that really matters though. Long story short, it's a timed session, not a distance thing so it's the same engine going WOT then down to zero, a little throttle and WOT again over and over and over again for equally as long so it won't much matter.

    Would be interesting (though a complete waste of time) to compare ACR vs GTS gas mileage.
    Would also be interesting to compare brake pad wear too. I bet the ACR uses a tiny bit more even though it has the help of drag.

    At the end of the day, I almost guarantee it's driving. It's like when people on Corvette Forums tell me they tracked their Z06 and it has no overheating issues while I'm watching good drivers get to 300 degrees on lap 2.
    I'm a mech engineer...There is no question the ACR engine is working harder...especially at max velocity. There's a reason the ACR has a top speed of approx 29 mph less than a SRT base. That down force will allow that ACR to do better with corner grip, but regardless of trajectory, there is a price for that increased downforce...resistance. Resistance is felt throughout the drivetrain...causing more friction. Friction is heat. The engine and oil cooling is the same on both cars...I'm not surprised to see an increase in oil temp with the ACR.

  18. #18
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2015
    Arizona
    Arizona Vipers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Paradise Valley
    Posts
    5,030
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    They're both (assuming equal driving) working just as hard. The engine is making 645 hp- GTS or ACR with a parachute. There is a difference, but probably insignificant and isn't because it has more drag. The ACR is, in theory, faster through the turns, so it spends more time in the straights under high load and gets on the gas earlier and brakes later and blah blah blah. None of that really matters though. Long story short, it's a timed session, not a distance thing so it's the same engine going WOT then down to zero, a little throttle and WOT again over and over and over again for equally as long so it won't much matter.

    Would be interesting (though a complete waste of time) to compare ACR vs GTS gas mileage.
    Would also be interesting to compare brake pad wear too. I bet the ACR uses a tiny bit more even though it has the help of drag.

    At the end of the day, I almost guarantee it's driving. It's like when people on Corvette Forums tell me they tracked their Z06 and it has no overheating issues while I'm watching good drivers get to 300 degrees on lap 2.
    There's a lot more to it then that. You are correct in a lot of ways, but the ACR will be seeing slower trap speeds on all straights, so less cooling is happening. The ACR will also have to be at 100% throttle longer and more often to reach the same speeds in the straights. If you are seeing 10mph less on the longer straights, the ACR will see much less radiator cooling as well as having to be full throttle longer to reach the end of each straight.
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

  19. #19
    Every way that I think about it, I have to agree that the load on the ACR engine should definitely be higher (AKA it's working harder). The load on the drivetrain is increased due to the extra "weight", which will load up the engine more. It'd be like driving up a steep hill or towing something.
    Last edited by usmcfieldmp; 08-11-2021 at 11:37 AM.
    1997 Dodge Viper GTS || Matte Bentley Silver | 60k miles ||

    2005 Chevrolet Cobalt SS || 2002 Audi TT Quattro || 1986 Volkswagen GTI

  20. #20
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    UAE - Dubai
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by stradman View Post
    Try running a different oil. In the past on track(before I went to 9.0L) I did find I had increased temps when it was hot outside say 30 degrees. And funny enough I was running Motul 5w50. I can't say whether that was the cause but now I run mobile 1 10-60 and never have problems with temp on track. Worth a try perhaps.
    I tried to run OEM 0w40 and it was heating up really quickly within the first lap. Not bad advice, definitely am gonna try it out 10-w60. Thank you

  21. #21
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    UAE - Dubai
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by BSLSK View Post
    This thread would be worth the read for you https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...hlight=hubbell

    I'd also have to agree with Stradman. You should try running 15W-50 as that is the proven oil weight for tracked Vipers.
    I think 15 is a bit thick for a stock engine. It would be running good to H/C or 9.0L. Thank you

  22. #22
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    UAE - Dubai
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    240 engine oil temp is fine. Just run good oil like Motul 300 or Royal Purple or something.
    Plenty of cars run +260 EO temps all day long with no problems.
    Honestly, at those temps, 5W50 may be too thick.

    You're probably just faster than your friend is all.
    Thank you and for sure am gonna try different oil.
    Currently am using Rowe 5w40 and was pretty good for two laps at the Track (+105F outside temp)

  23. #23
    Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    UAE - Dubai
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers View Post
    240 is fine, I get to 260 all the time. You probably hold 2nd gear longer than your friend.
    Never thought about it and now it makes sense. My only curious is why its raising so quickly within few laps. I thought maybe something wrong with the cooler or lines I’ve changed.
    Thank you

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ACR128 View Post
    I think 15 is a bit thick for a stock engine. It would be running good to H/C or 9.0L. Thank you
    The 15W is really only concerning cold start and it's rated for below freezing temperatures.

    The 50 is the part that you should really be concerned with when debating on-track lubrication.

    15W50 is generally seen to be applicable for freezing temps up to 50°C (ambient temps).
    1997 Dodge Viper GTS || Matte Bentley Silver | 60k miles ||

    2005 Chevrolet Cobalt SS || 2002 Audi TT Quattro || 1986 Volkswagen GTI

  25. #25
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    DFW
    Posts
    497
    Quote Originally Posted by usmcfieldmp View Post
    Every way that I think about it, I have to agree that the load on the ACR engine should definitely be higher (AKA it's working harder). The load on the drivetrain is increased due to the extra "weight", which will load up the engine more. It'd be like driving up a steep hill or towing something.
    Driving a Jeep uphill will have more load on the engine because you're adding more throttle. GTS and ACR will both be WOT on the straights from roughly the same start point to the same end point. The ACR will just be carrying more corner speed and start to get on the throttle a tiny bit early and brake a little later- but that's all negligible for powertrain cooling purposes.

    WOT is WOT for the engine. It doesn't have more or less load to cool being uphill or downhill. It's making 640hp and pumping about 640hp worth of thermal energy into the fluids. Up, down left or right, or stationary on a dyno.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers View Post
    There's a lot more to it then that. You are correct in a lot of ways, but the ACR will be seeing slower trap speeds on all straights, so less cooling is happening. The ACR will also have to be at 100% throttle longer and more often to reach the same speeds in the straights. If you are seeing 10mph less on the longer straights, the ACR will see much less radiator cooling as well as having to be full throttle longer to reach the end of each straight.
    I doubt there is much more cooling at 110mph vs 100mph. 10 vs 20 mph, sure, but after a while, it doesn't really matter. I'd guess that somewhere around 70mph it increased air velocity doesn't matter. You're only going to get so much air through a radiator- especially one with an electric fan on the back of it. Plus you run into boundary layers (thermal and laminar boundary layers) and other fluid dynamics stuff.

    Only thing that really matters is total energy output over the 20 minute session.

    There are other factors, such as average RPM (friction) but I'm assuming that on the same track, that will be similar.


    edit:
    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/c...fer-d_430.html

    (20meters per second is about 45mph)

    That's over a flat plate, which is a big different, and I think (thought not certain) it would be much more pronounced (as in, flattens out faster) where flow is restricted like going through a bumper inlet.
    Last edited by Lawineer; 08-12-2021 at 01:13 PM.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily


 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •