Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1

    Help needed in sourcing Gen 5 drive shafts

    Based in Scotland - changing the diff(already acquired in UK) on my Gen 4 to a Gen 5 and looking for Gen 5 drive shafts rather than changing over the stub axles that are notoriously difficult to remove.


  2. #2

  3. #3
    Thanks - sorry, cross pond confusion!.....that's a prop shaft to me - it's the drive shafts from the diff to the wheels that I'm looking for.

  4. #4
    VOA Member
    since 2016
    Crossroads of America

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    299
    Usually, we refer to the prop-shaft as a driveshaft (goes from tranny to rear end) and the half-shaft goes from rear to wheel.
    Last edited by Viper98; 3 Days Ago at 03:34 PM.

  5. #5
    Ok - appreciated the linguistic help and now that it is all sorted out - please could I have help sourcing half shalfts ......though I'm still confused because some sites advertise them as drive shafts!

  6. #6
    VOA Member
    since 2020
    Ohio
    Steve M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    4,271
    If you aren't able to source them, this may help with removing the stubs:

    https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...n-4-Stub-Axles

    That method definitely works for removing them.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Manifold | UDP | HPTuners | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | McLeod RST | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  7. #7
    VOA Member
    since 2020
    Ohio
    Steve M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    4,271
    Random thought: it might be worth reaching out to Nth Moto and Calvo Motorsports. I realize they are US based, but they likely have some laying around. I'm almost certain they don't use the stock axles on their high HP builds...if I had to guess, they are probably running Mark Williams units.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Manifold | UDP | HPTuners | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | McLeod RST | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  8. #8
    VOA Member
    since 2020
    Ohio
    Steve M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    4,271
    One more, and I'll shut up...I originally posted this here: https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...l=1#post433200

    Might help with the terminology. They stopped using half shafts in 2003 for what it's worth. You are looking for axles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack B View Post
    Steve

    I thought G4 was CV joints
    Yes, the Gen 3 and 4 axles both use CV joints.

    For clarity, I'm going to define what I mean when I use different terms involving the differential/rear drivetrain.

    This is what I consider a differential assembly (includes the housing, ring & pinion, differential/carrier, "batwing" cover, stub axles, seals, bearings, yoke, etc.):



    More specifically, that is a 2013-2017 Gen 5 Viper Dana Super 44/Dana 44HD/Dana 226 differential assembly. That basic assembly pictured will fit any Gen 3/4/5 (2003-2017) Viper, provided you use the correct stub axles.

    This is what I consider a differential (some call them differential carriers, or just carriers):



    That is the GKN Visco Lok, which was the OEM differential in all Gen 4 and 5 (2008-2017) Vipers.

    These are the most popular aftermarket differential options, including Drexler which is the topic of this thread:



    This is what I consider an axle:



    Those are Gen 3 (2003-2006) and Gen 4 (2008-2010) axles. As you can see, they both have constant velocity (CV) joints. It should be noted that some Gen 4 cars came from the factory with Gen 3 axles (like mine). The part numbers are different (Gen 3 = P05038200AA; Gen 4 = P05038200AB); you can easily tell them apart by looking for the "double hump" center shaft. The Gen 4 axles are supposedly stronger between the two.

    These are Gen 5 axles:



    They appear to use the same "double hump" center shaft as the Gen 4 axles, but they attach to the differential assembly differently.

    Neither are to be confused with the Gen 1/2 half shafts:



    These are stub axles (they slide into the differential housing, mating with the internal splines in the differential):



    Specifically, Gen 5 (2013-2017) stub axles.

    As you can hopefully see from the pictures above, the Gen 5 axles bolt to the stub axles instead of using splines:



    And this is a Gen 3/4 stub axle:



    It should be noted that Gen 3 and Gen 4 stub axles are not the same. The part that is outside of the differential is the same, but the part that goes in to the differential is not.

    Backwards compatibility goes something like this:

    Axles:
    • Gen 3 and Gen 4 axles are interchangeable
    • Gen 3 and Gen 4 axles can be used with either Gen 3 or Gen 4 stub axles
    • Gen 5 axles can only be used with Gen 5 stub axles


    Stub Axles:
    • Gen 3 stub axles can not be used with the Gen 4/5 GKN Visco Lok differential due to the location of the internal retention ring grooves
    • Gen 4 stub axles can be used in a Gen 5, but you would have to use Gen 3/4 style axles
    • Gen 5 stub axles can be used in a Gen 4, but you have to use the Gen 5 axles
    • Note: some aftermarket differentials are not compatible with the OEM stub axles, and will come with their own stubs


    Differentials:
    • Gen 3 (2003-2006) = Hydra-Lok (w/ 3.07 ring and pinion)
    • Gen 4 (2008-2010) = GKN Visco-Lok (w/ 3.07 ring and pinion)
    • Gen 5 (2013-2017) = GKN Visco-Lok (w/ 3.55 ring and pinion)
    Last edited by Steve M; 3 Days Ago at 05:59 PM.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Manifold | UDP | HPTuners | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | McLeod RST | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  9. #9
    Excellent, thanks Steve - I'd been looking for your write up on the solution and just couldn't find it.......read it awhile ago and vaguely stored it away in the back ov my mind as 'a might need one day'. Planning the change over as a winter job, so will report back in a few months time. I'll also look into your other suggestion.

  10. #10
    Member
    Supporting Vendor
    Supporting Vendor
    TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    518
    Quote Originally Posted by bozz View Post
    Based in Scotland - changing the diff(already acquired in UK) on my Gen 4 to a Gen 5 and looking for Gen 5 drive shafts rather than changing over the stub axles that are notoriously difficult to remove.

    You might talk to Mark Williams. Not sure what your budget is MW is not cheap. Mark Williams is top shelf stuff but you get what you pay for. We have installed and used many of difs and axles for years

  11. #11
    Thanks for the information - appreciated.

    :

  12. #12
    VOA Member
    since 2020
    Ohio
    Steve M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    4,271
    There are PLENTY of other options before you have to go down the path of Mark Williams axles, which is some serious race car shit that only the most serious builds would ever need.

    Por ejemplo, it looks like you can still get new Gen 4 stubs:

    68027872AC - Right Stub Axle (Gen 4)
    68027873AC - Left Stub Axle (Gen 4)

    Those are literally a 1 for 1 swap with the Gen 5 stubs - you pull out the Gen 5 units, and tap the new Gen 4 ones in.

    You'd be out ~$375 USD + shipping (and customs I guess), but still far less than the nearly $3,000-$4,500 the Mark Williams axles would cost. It's also less than what you'd pay for new Gen 5 axles.

    And that's assuming you can't get the original stubs out. I know people have made it out to be a huge deal, but all it takes is the right tool.
    Last edited by Steve M; 2 Days Ago at 06:43 PM.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Manifold | UDP | HPTuners | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | McLeod RST | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  13. #13
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2020
    Southern California
    Whitey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    One more, and I'll shut up...I originally posted this here: https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...l=1#post433200

    Might help with the terminology. They stopped using half shafts in 2003 for what it's worth. You are looking for axles.



    Yes, the Gen 3 and 4 axles both use CV joints.

    For clarity, I'm going to define what I mean when I use different terms involving the differential/rear drivetrain.

    This is what I consider a differential assembly (includes the housing, ring & pinion, differential/carrier, "batwing" cover, stub axles, seals, bearings, yoke, etc.):



    More specifically, that is a 2013-2017 Gen 5 Viper Dana Super 44/Dana 44HD/Dana 226 differential assembly. That basic assembly pictured will fit any Gen 3/4/5 (2003-2017) Viper, provided you use the correct stub axles.

    This is what I consider a differential (some call them differential carriers, or just carriers):



    That is the GKN Visco Lok, which was the OEM differential in all Gen 4 and 5 (2008-2017) Vipers.

    These are the most popular aftermarket differential options, including Drexler which is the topic of this thread:



    This is what I consider an axle:



    Those are Gen 3 (2003-2006) and Gen 4 (2008-2010) axles. As you can see, they both have constant velocity (CV) joints. It should be noted that some Gen 4 cars came from the factory with Gen 3 axles (like mine). The part numbers are different (Gen 3 = P05038200AA; Gen 4 = P05038200AB); you can easily tell them apart by looking for the "double hump" center shaft. The Gen 4 axles are supposedly stronger between the two.

    These are Gen 5 axles:



    They appear to use the same "double hump" center shaft as the Gen 4 axles, but they attach to the differential assembly differently.

    Neither are to be confused with the Gen 1/2 half shafts:



    These are stub axles (they slide into the differential housing, mating with the internal splines in the differential):



    Specifically, Gen 5 (2013-2017) stub axles.

    As you can hopefully see from the pictures above, the Gen 5 axles bolt to the stub axles instead of using splines:



    And this is a Gen 3/4 stub axle:



    It should be noted that Gen 3 and Gen 4 stub axles are not the same. The part that is outside of the differential is the same, but the part that goes in to the differential is not.

    Backwards compatibility goes something like this:

    Axles:
    • Gen 3 and Gen 4 axles are interchangeable
    • Gen 3 and Gen 4 axles can be used with either Gen 3 or Gen 4 stub axles
    • Gen 5 axles can only be used with Gen 5 stub axles


    Stub Axles:
    • Gen 3 stub axles can not be used with the Gen 4/5 GKN Visco Lok differential due to the location of the internal retention ring grooves
    • Gen 4 stub axles can be used in a Gen 5, but you would have to use Gen 3/4 style axles
    • Gen 5 stub axles can be used in a Gen 4, but you have to use the Gen 5 axles
    • Note: some aftermarket differentials are not compatible with the OEM stub axles, and will come with their own stubs


    Differentials:
    • Gen 3 (2003-2006) = Hydra-Lok (w/ 3.07 ring and pinion)
    • Gen 4 (2008-2010) = GKN Visco-Lok (w/ 3.07 ring and pinion)
    • Gen 5 (2013-2017) = GKN Visco-Lok (w/ 3.55 ring and pinion)
    ^^^^ gracious contribution!
    2015 White GTC

  14. #14
    Thanks for that suggestion - and it's the way I now intend going. I'll order the Gen 4 stubs and exchange them on my new gen 5 diff, thus making the change over quick and frustration free.
    I'm interested to look inside by gen 4 diff as I changed the diff oil at the weekend and found the broken end of a gear tooth in the bottom of the waste oil......Lady Luck must've been looking down on me when I purchased the gen 5 diff last week! Will post back what I find when I open the diff.


  15. #15
    Enthusiast darbgnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    1,625
    I personally am thankful that the Gen 5 halfshafts bolt onto the diff, as opposed to the slip on splined units of the previous generations. I've fought more than I'd like with some splined front halfshafts on 1/2 ton Rams, whereas removal of the bolt on halfshafts on my Hummer H1, which are the same style as a Gen 5(and GM pickups as well), are as easy as a small ratchet wrench......

    Maybe the splined units on the Viper aren't as bad, as most don't see rain and winter, but still, bolt on is a better solution.
    Brad Williams
    2015 Competition Blue SRT - V/E DSC Suspension - TA1 Aero - StopTech's - SW2's with Corsas, Hummer H1, 70 Dodge Charger, BMW R1200GS Rallye, Ducati 999S, etc


 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •