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  1. #1
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    First Track Day Thoughts

    So a bit of a disclaimer: I wasn't pushing the car as hard as I could on purpose. It's my weekend car, not a track car. It's too beautiful for a runoff or paint chips. I did my brake pad bed in the first session and waited until the last session to "run" it. It was a private day, so I was literally the only one on the track the last session ( maybe 2). By this point, in the Texas heat, I was pretty exhausted, but the adrenaline got me through it. I also generally just used 3rd and 4th gear. I did about 7 laps, probably the last 7 laps she'll ever see on the track. It's my street car

    Me: I'm a decent driver. I've prob outgrown HPDE for sure, but haven't done much W2W. In a spec series, I bet I would be far from dead last, but behind mid pack. At least that's what my pro-driver instructor estimated. So take this with a grain of salt- slapdick driver driving at 80% of slapdick capability review.

    Car: ACR spring rates (plus softer helper spring) on tractive coilovers, and no wing or splitter. I am very low with side skirts (about 2.25" clearance on sides) and a diffuser, so I'm sure that helped. On the Corsa tires, pretty new and in good condition. ACR sway bars too.

    The car is a monster. Endless grip. I'd seriously consider adjusting your dead pedal because I was using it to keep myself upright in turns and my left thigh was definitely getting tired. I was pulling a sustained 1.3G regularly in turns without the car being nervous at all.

    I didn't pick up much understeer, which is really impressive, but I also wasn't pushing it. It felt well balanced, though a bit hard to rotate. That's probably just due to it being a very sticky car. With more time, I think I'd do better. Definitely more balanced than the c7.

    Power delivery on the track is awesome. I wouldn't say "easy to drive" or "very predictable," but that's because it's a very high grip, ~700hp car. None of them are "easy" to drive, but relatively speaking, much better than expected for what it is. The few times it got a little loose, I can't say I felt nervous- and this is my first time on track. The one time I really messed up a chicane exit and overwhelmed the tires trying to get back, it four wheel drifted safely to the correct line by itself, haha.

    I dont understand how it can be driven on the track in any mode but with stability and traction control completely off. Even in sport mode, it was extremely intrusive. I had to pit and figure out how to turn it off after half a lap, and I was just doing brake pad bedding. There were times I still felt it was jumping in, especially on brakes, but that could just be in my head. There really isn't a good track mode other than running naked.

    Brakes left more to be desired. They just need to be bigger. I dont really care for the feel either. I felt that on the street too. C7 Grand Sport brakes were definitely preferable. They were also 6t piston and larger diameter. It stops just fine, but even my Xp12 brakes were getting stressed. I could smell them, bad. I dont think I'd want to run them with slicks or even full aero.

    In all honesty, the car is terrifying, not because of its characteristics, but because it has such an incredibly high limit. If you just want to run fast, you'll have plenty of margin left. If you want to run a car near it's limits... you're going very far out in the deep end! Also, because it doesn't severely understeer, it's less predictable. In most cars, you know what it's going to do- plow straight! so you're ready to with the correct response- you know what's coming. But any that is balanced should have this "problem."

    I didn't drive with a wing, but really think that car is faster without a rear wing. Granted, I only have a 2" splitter or so. I can't imagine the car with another 500lbs-700lbs of downforce. At no point was I thinking "man, I really need to control this oversteer."

    Lastly, if the sound thundering through the straights and shifting 3-4 doesn't make you smile, you're a heartless stone. I looked forward to it every straight! When its screaming like that, especially where it echos, it just founds perfect.

    J1GPZVM.jpg
    sRspprh.jpg


    edit: First track day. (facepalm)
    Last edited by City; 09-17-2021 at 01:59 PM.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

  2. #2
    Great write-up. I am also just a halfway decent driver and I feel the car makes me look better than I am. It's extremely predictable and all the power very usable, surprisingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    I dont understand how it can be driven on the track in any mode but with stability and traction control completely off. Even in sport mode, it was extremely intrusive. I had to pit and figure out how to turn it off after half a lap, and I was just doing brake pad bedding. There were times I still felt it was jumping in, especially on brakes, but that could just be in my head. There really isn't a good track mode other than running naked.
    I posted something about this a while back and opinion varies widely re: leaving systems on. Some of the fastest guys on the forum leave everything on, whereas you and I find it to be extremely intrusive to the point it's unusable. Aaron from Nth Moto chimed in and said that they've found quite a bit of variance from car to car. I guess some cars stay out of your way and others are practically "broken." I can't even shift hard into 4th gear on my car without it cutting throttle.
    '13 GTS

  3. #3
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    I've never driven a car where the SC system didn't didn't hold back even a decent driver. Best I drove was my C7, and race was good- it just kept the tires from spinning up. I could run very very very similar lap times as my instructor in Sport 2 (level below "race") and he's an unbelievably fast driver, many time national champ, etc.
    When I went to spring mountain, I was running the same lap times or very close in sport 1 as those instructors, on a track I barely knew, but they were several seconds faster with it full off. I also learned a lot of very bad habits from 2 long days with a of nannies on. I am still very binary on the gas from it- because whatever, nannies will adjust it.

    GM also advertised it very different.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

  4. #4
    Enthusiast GTS Dean's Avatar
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    Great commentary and glad you got to explore the envelope a bit. Too bad you won't have it on the track again, but it IS a gorgeous car! Since you have other alternatives, I can understand your *current* mindset.
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!

  5. #5
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    These cars aren’t cheap to run either! Everything is big and expensive.
    Even outside of the cost of the car itself, operating cost is a big part of the equation.

    My next track car will probably a spec something- probably boxter or cayman. More expensive than the brz but pretty reasonable for what they are.

  6. #6
    Enthusiast GTS Dean's Avatar
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    Fuel, tires and brakes - same as any other car. Just more/bigger.
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTS Dean View Post
    Fuel, tires and brakes - same as any other car. Just more/bigger.
    I like the Viper for a track car. Replacement parts, aside from body pieces, are cheap.

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    Great write up! Very interesting on the car feeling intrusive. Are you saying the traction control was intrusive or the stability control?
    For me I love the traction control, it puts the power down way better than I can and way better than my motec setup. I turn the motec all the off and let the factory Bosch system do it's job. I can floor it in 2nd car from very low speed and the car accelerates perfectly. The stability control and traction control are motorsports spec Bosch, very high level stuff like what the Cup Car guys add to their cars but spend a fortune on it. Also you didnt like the brakes? Did they fade? What brakes are they? 1.3 G's on the Corsa's is awesome!
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers View Post
    Great write up! Very interesting on the car feeling intrusive. Are you saying the traction control was intrusive or the stability control?
    For me I love the traction control, it puts the power down way better than I can and way better than my motec setup. I turn the motec all the off and let the factory Bosch system do it's job. I can floor it in 2nd car from very low speed and the car accelerates perfectly. The stability control and traction control are motorsports spec Bosch, very high level stuff like what the Cup Car guys add to their cars but spend a fortune on it. Also you didnt like the brakes? Did they fade? What brakes are they? 1.3 G's on the Corsa's is awesome!
    1.3Gs on Corsas is unheard of.

  10. #10
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13COBRA View Post
    1.3Gs on Corsas is unheard of.
    0AEFD51D-A0A4-4079-ABCE-7B9ED99B9B78.jpg



    Tires after 3 laps for bedding, a cool down lap and a 2 mile lap to cool the brakes on the street. This is before I ran "real" laps.

    F47F3307-39C2-4A20-A07E-499168822D0C.jpg
    Last edited by Lawineer; 09-17-2021 at 02:33 PM.

  11. #11
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers View Post
    Great write up! Very interesting on the car feeling intrusive. Are you saying the traction control was intrusive or the stability control?
    For me I love the traction control, it puts the power down way better than I can and way better than my motec setup. I turn the motec all the off and let the factory Bosch system do it's job. I can floor it in 2nd car from very low speed and the car accelerates perfectly. The stability control and traction control are motorsports spec Bosch, very high level stuff like what the Cup Car guys add to their cars but spend a fortune on it. Also you didnt like the brakes? Did they fade? What brakes are they? 1.3 G's on the Corsa's is awesome!
    TC was off, it was SC. Which was surprising because I definitely wasn't trying to find the limit of cohesion here.

    It can definitely help lay down power, but it leaves a TON on the table for me. It both cuts too much and more importantly, for way too long. As I said, with the Corvettes at spring mountain, the instructors were multiple (3,4 maybe 5 seconds) faster per lap without nannies on. It got me in the bad habit of flooring it and letting the computer figure it out. When I go back to driving without them, Viper or BRZ, I tend to do the same. Now, I know I don't have them on, so I wait too long and then drop the hammer rather than more progressively easing in, finding edge of traction as I increase throttle. It isn't good for smooth progressive weight transfer either. Now granted, I'm guessing you have a few more hundred horses to control so maybe it is better to let the computer sort it out.

    Brakes never faded. I just didn't like the feel as much. Very subjective. Might just be the pads (I normally run Hawks but I'm kind of over them- they don't last worth a crap). I never really got a feel for them. Again, subjective. They were Carbotech XP12F and XP8 rear. Balance was good.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

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    I wasn't doubting, just saying I hadn't heard of that. That's solid.

  13. #13
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13COBRA View Post
    I wasn't doubting, just saying I hadn't heard of that. That's solid.
    I obviously can't stare at the g's while driving, but I'd glance down on occasion during the first few laps just to get "calibrated" and I noticed a lot of 1.2x- and 1.3X. I never saw a 1.4x so I'm assuming that was just a quick spike.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    I obviously can't stare at the g's while driving, but I'd glance down on occasion during the first few laps just to get "calibrated" and I noticed a lot of 1.2x- and 1.3X. I never saw a 1.4x so I'm assuming that was just a quick spike.
    That's very impressive!

  15. #15
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13COBRA View Post
    That's very impressive!
    Thanks! I really think there has to be some significant downforce , even if it's not a ton, from being so low, side skits and diffuser. Or at least not having lift. I bet the stiff suspension minimizing body roll did a good job of keeping the air from lifting the car too.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    TC was off, it was SC. Which was surprising because I definitely wasn't trying to find the limit of cohesion here.

    It can definitely help lay down power, but it leaves a TON on the table for me. It both cuts too much and more importantly, for way too long. As I said, with the Corvettes at spring mountain, the instructors were multiple (3,4 maybe 5 seconds) faster per lap without nannies on. It got me in the bad habit of flooring it and letting the computer figure it out. When I go back to driving without them, Viper or BRZ, I tend to do the same. Now, I know I don't have them on, so I wait too long and then drop the hammer rather than more progressively easing in, finding edge of traction as I increase throttle. It isn't good for smooth progressive weight transfer either. Now granted, I'm guessing you have a few more hundred horses to control so maybe it is better to let the computer sort it out.

    Brakes never faded. I just didn't like the feel as much. Very subjective. Might just be the pads (I normally run Hawks but I'm kind of over them- they don't last worth a crap). I never really got a feel for them. Again, subjective. They were Carbotech XP12F and XP8 rear. Balance was good.
    My stability control has NEVER interfered enough that I felt it slow me down, the only time I have ever felt it do anything is when the car has already start to spun 20 degrees or so, which at that point all it's doing is saving the spin. Even when I did this- https://www.instagram.com/p/CN03Ay4l...dium=copy_link the traction or stability control did nothing, the car landed and just took off.
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

  17. #17
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    I dunno. Literally 4 turns in I decided to call it a mulligan lap, pitted and turned it off, then went back out.

    Not kidding, my core and left thigh is a little sore from holding myself up, and it's definitely not from the BRZ. Aside from being slow as uphill molasse in January, it has snug seats and harness.
    Last edited by Lawineer; 09-17-2021 at 03:20 PM.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
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  18. #18
    Enthusiast darbgnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13COBRA View Post
    1.3Gs on Corsas is unheard of.
    Oh... the Corsas can peg the factory G meter in most directions, lol.

    20190810_203252[2126] (2).jpg

    BTW, I also find the factory TC and SC nice and loose, only stepping in when I'm trying to show off, or running outta talent.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer
    In all honesty, the car is terrifying
    Its a fine line between terror and exhilaration.
    I've almost stopped white knuckling the steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer
    My next track car will probably a spec something- probably boxter or cayman.
    One vote for the Cayman w/PDK!
    2008 Viper SRT-10 Very Viper Orange Coupe * The Orange Lure (Black On Orange)
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  20. #20
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    Are these lateral G's? Like what's posted here- https://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-grip-kings
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

  21. #21
    Enthusiast darbgnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Vipers View Post
    Are these lateral G's? Like what's posted here- https://fastestlaps.com/lists/top-grip-kings
    Nah, they're not sustained lateral G's like the testing benchmark, just instantaneous, barely recordable, lol.
    Brad Williams
    2015 Competition Blue SRT - V/E DSC Suspension - TA1 Aero - StopTech's - SW2's with Corsas, Hummer H1, 70 Dodge Charger, BMW R1200GS Rallye, Ducati 999S, etc

  22. #22
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Keep in mind, speed matters. The faster the car is going the more aero matters. It can help or hurt. So those tests aren’t all equal.

    They normally don’t get tires hot either. At least not hot enough.

    edit: and track conditions, elevation, etc matter for our readings. Presumably they're flat for those tests. I 100% know I could get the numbers a lot higher if I wanted to and the car has a TON more left in it. I just lack the fortitude. Unfortunately, I didn't have the side effects Niki Minaj is talking about, haha
    Last edited by Lawineer; 09-19-2021 at 06:41 PM.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    So a bit of a disclaimer: I wasn't pushing the car as hard as I could on purpose. It's my weekend car, not a track car. It's too beautiful for a runoff or paint chips. I did my brake pad bed in the first session and waited until the last session to "run" it. It was a private day, so I was literally the only one on the track the last session ( maybe 2). By this point, in the Texas heat, I was pretty exhausted, but the adrenaline got me through it. I also generally just used 3rd and 4th gear. I did about 7 laps, probably the last 7 laps she'll ever see on the track. It's my street car
    You and I are rather similar in our thinking. I'd love to have a dedicated Viper track car, but since that is not in the cards I also run mine on the track at about 80-85% effort. Every time I get done with the last session of the day I think about making this the last time until I get that itch again and sign up for the next track day. I think you can definitely take your street car to the track consistently and have a good time without damaging the car if you go to the track with a plan and stick to it. My Xpel has done a really good job protecting from paint chips. My windshield on the other hand has definitely got some track day chips so I'll eventually replace that when I'm completely done tracking the car. So keep you options open in the future and go turn a few more fun laps.

    PS - I've never even looked at the max G's my car has recorded. Now you have me curious!
    Blake

    2016 1 of 1 Viper GTC Prefix 9.0 Stroker Stage 2 Arrow

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    Great write-up! And I think it shows that some of the Gen V cars have TC/Stability that behaves differently than others. When I am going to be pushing the hardest in a TT session I typically run in sport mode. I have found that in normal it is too sensitive, and in track mode, I don't push hard enough. The Bosch system really is amazing, but it takes time to get comfortable. If you arent going out to track on regular, then it's just about having fun, getting the adrenaline up, and coming home safe and damage-free. If it is just a weekend car, You could have the best day ever at the track, but if you go 4 off, and have rock chips down the side, you will 100% forget about the 30 laps of fun you had, and will focus on the bad incident. I think you have the right perspective in your case.

  25. #25
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperNC View Post
    You and I are rather similar in our thinking. I'd love to have a dedicated Viper track car, but since that is not in the cards I also run mine on the track at about 80-85% effort. Every time I get done with the last session of the day I think about making this the last time until I get that itch again and sign up for the next track day. I think you can definitely take your street car to the track consistently and have a good time without damaging the car if you go to the track with a plan and stick to it. My Xpel has done a really good job protecting from paint chips. My windshield on the other hand has definitely got some track day chips so I'll eventually replace that when I'm completely done tracking the car. So keep you options open in the future and go turn a few more fun laps.

    PS - I've never even looked at the max G's my car has recorded. Now you have me curious!
    Do you have a dedicated track car? That makes it a lot easier to not take the viper out.

    The other big thing is, I'll need proper tires for the track. Which also means another set of wheels. These were my tires after running half a session- and this track is NOT hard on tires (it is on brakes though).
    https://i.imgur.com/TAsnNoZ.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/ICv52pC.jpg
    That's half a session, running easy.

    And with more grip/full session, I'll probably need a brake upgrade too.

    It's just not worth it. I'd rather drive a slow car as hard as I want than push the viper around at 80%. All the fun and learning curve is at running it hard.
    Last edited by Lawineer; 09-19-2021 at 06:41 PM.
    2013 GTS- Black w/ Gunmetal stripes. DSC Tractive Coilovers, big wing, ACR sways, carbon stuff
    2014 BRZ: Race/track car. Full retarded &2011 Lexus GX460: Daily


 
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