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  1. #126
    Ed Massena
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperSRT View Post
    Thank you for the detailed insight. Quite helpful to understand things better. If I understand it the primary change in income in the timeframe was the loss of sponsor monies (excluding the 65k or so related to NVE4). If that is true a clear plan for how either to address gaining future sponsor monies or reducing the expenditures to accommodate the reduced level of income is needed. What we have seen so far doesn't seem to address either of those. To the sponsor end has the board addressed why sponsor monies dropped, and what the potential is to regain them or gain new sponsors? And on the expendature side are costs like magazine creation, publication and disribution along with club management costs been addressed? As indicated above the plan needs to not just get back to the black, it has to pay back the debt accumulated in a reasonable time frame.


    Good questions -

    Much of the evaluation that went into the 2022 budget plan circled around the unpredictable advertising market (also influenced heavily by covid BTW). We were looking for ways to make advertising non-essential. The two options there of course are raise dues and cut services. Because of the size of the gap, we attempted to find a middle path that does some of both, and puts the choice of VQ delivery in the member's hands. Making the magazine digital for those who prefer it saves expenses on printing and shipping costs, specifically for those members. Pricing the Mamba accordingly makes it possible to provide the glossy to a considerable percentage of the members who still love the 'coffee table factor,' though those folks are less likely to be posting in here.

    As for addressing the advertisers, their reasons are mixed. A large component is Dodge itself, and the reasons for that are nebulous... 'budget cuts in that area'
    Among others, some have just had changes to their business model or services they focus on. Some are getting back up to speed post-covid. I understand we booked a couple thousand dollars worth today. Reviving the advertiser relationships is an important step for growth, but won't be necessary for the club to work through 2022.

    It's worth mentioning that the budget plan many have attacked on here for various reasons is strictly aimed at 2022. During that time, we can get actual numbers on renewals at the new rates, we can begin to see what the advertising market does while emerging from pandemic spending (hopefully), and we can adjust accordingly for 2023 with a new administration welcoming your input.

    Sorry - missed one of your questions... the 800 number, club store, etc. management.... Yes, the cost of that is on the drawing board. It's more involved than it seems, and there are considerable shipping costs included in those fees as well, so doesn't reflect only labor. The VOA Store is getting its own task force to evaluate the cost/benefit there and its cost is a considerable chunk of that 'club management cost'
    Last edited by SlateEd; 10-01-2021 at 09:56 PM. Reason: caught one more of your questions after posting...
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  2. #127
    Regional President
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    Maybe we could consider print to order for most of it or group buys. I seen the amount of off size inventory we have at NVE, you can almost eliminate that issue with print to order. Just an idea.
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  3. #128
    Ed Massena
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    Quote Originally Posted by braunstein82 View Post
    Maybe we could consider print to order for most of it or group buys. I seen the amount of off size inventory we have at NVE, you can almost eliminate that issue with print to order. Just an idea.
    absolutely right! As we're getting the current inventory drained down, we'll be trying to find the best resources for print-to-order for the future.
    NY/CT VOA - find us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nyctvoa/

  4. #129
    Beth Perry Sewell
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    Quote Originally Posted by braunstein82 View Post
    I also strongly feel since this information has been presented after nominations for national were closed. That we reopen nominations and also present who is running thus far and in future post immediately as they become candidates.
    The board agreed to extend the nomination period until October 15, 2021 with voting between then and October 31, 2021 so if you or anyone else are interested in running for national office please email the national secretary, Ed Massena (ed.massena@driveviper.com).

    Per the bylaws only the region presidents vote on the national officers. The current bylaws are posted on the website for everyone to review and will be updated shortly.
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  5. #130
    Beth Perry Sewell
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB ~ PartsRack View Post
    I respectfully disagree.... the published half-page VQ 'reports' are "statements of cash flows" or most recently published "2019 Revenue and Expense Statement." Essentially worthless and dated.

    Perhaps publish the 2020 P+L now? Instead of in a longer-delayed next VQ mag?

    Maurice has it.... dated as it is, but more relevant now than in more months away.
    Non-profits have the exact same financial statements as for profits - they are just labeled differently.
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  6. #131
    Beth Perry Sewell
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickB View Post
    Did the regions receive their portion of 2021 dues?
    We withdrew the suggestion and remaining dues (70% has already been paid) will be sent out shortly.
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  7. #132
    Supporting Vendor JonB ~ PartsRack's Avatar
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    Beth's OP in this thread mentioned the passing of Maurice's mother, and the obvious stresses that brought him.

    Of course Beth would NOT mention that she 'nearly lost' one of the most-genuine Nice Guys in the Viper-Viper Cup community, Richard Sewell, her husband. After their Long and difficult battle, we were so happy to see Richard and Beth at Viper Days Reunion, with Richard looking great..... much like his pre-illness self.

    It is Amazing that Beth's priorities allowed her ANY time to work on VOA while helping to keep Richard alive. Her dedication to the club cannot be denied.

    Richard, keep getting better and stronger, hope to pace your race car again some day.

    JonB
    Last edited by JonB ~ PartsRack; 10-02-2021 at 12:49 PM.
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  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herrsss View Post
    Non-profits have the exact same financial statements as for profits - they are just labeled differently.
    The tax returns are marked non FASB 958 compliant. That plus my understanding of financial documentations of corporations make the 401C reporting quite different than for-profit corporations

    There are questions regarding the magazine. Some were cleared up with more information that separated Wilson fees to allow the magazine related portion to be contained under magazine (a big chunk of change and thus allows one to see more of the real cost of the magazine). A few related questions include:

    Editor/Maurice are mentioned indicating about $10,000 per issue or $40k last year. Is that a payment to a separate company or to an individual? The tax statements indicate zero salary expenses so how this is managed is not clear.
    Also, as Maurice as a founder would be considered a past officer I found it strange that the questions below were all marked No:
    3 Did the organization list any former officer, director or trustee, key employee, or highest compensated employee on
    line la7 If "Yes," complete Schedule) for such individual
    5 Did any person listed on line la receive or accrue compensation from any unrelated organization or individual for
    services rendered to the organizatlon 7If "Yes," complete Schedule) for such person

    I recall from sometime in the past that magazine related advertising revenue was passed directly to the magazine and not held by VOA. This is most notable when the 2021 cash flows list zero revenue from advertising yet we know there was advertising present in the magazines published to date. If this is true could we get a full accounting of magazine revenue and expenses, including those outside of VOA.
    Last edited by ViperSRT; 10-02-2021 at 04:24 PM.

  9. #134
    Regional President
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    Thanks for your comments Jonb!

    I want folks to know 20-21 has been a difficult time for most. I also want to remind those of us that have been here for the whole ride VOA was established based on the lessons learned from the VCA as previously stated in this thread. As one closely related to all the goings on over this time frame I want to assure everyone, all members were delivered what VOA had promised and will through the end of the year. As Houston's regional president for all but two years I have attended all Presidential meetings and decision making discussions. Much is demanded to make this club function at a national level and deliver to the regions.

    There was a deliberate strong break between the treasury and president functions for the club when we set the VOA up. The president has no direct access to the books! The president doesn't dictate spending or revenue decisions, the regional presidents comprising the board are responsible. With so many regional voices moving forward I foresee monthly board meetings with standardized financial reporting requirements and with numerous regional presidential subcommittees being formed to help facilitate the load on the club officers and creating greater levels of detailed knowledge and experience being made available for decision making.

    This club is a labor of love for all of us and no one is getting paid to do any of this. The loan was established to buy us time. Honestly if this had been identified last year would we have been in a position to raise rates in the middle of the Covid pandemic? We can now manage this situation moving forward. Yes we have a loan to payoff but I believe now that we see all the options on the table I am sure we will end up a much stronger club because of it. Most all the sensitivity analysis related scenarios referenced are being worked in spreadsheets as you read this. All the members are represented by their regional presidents with every fiscal decision being made for this club. As previously stated, if you have a financial question your national treasurer is available per the bylaws. National Officer nominations for the club are open and I hope all will consider participation in this endeavor.

    All your national officers I have observed over my time involved have worked hard to deliver a great club experience for the membership and I really appreciate their diligence. Do we need to make things better? Of course! Is this a lost fight? Not hardly! We all came to this club for the car but stayed for the people.
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  10. #135
    Regional Technical Director
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    Just one question:

    Is national changing the percentage of dues for both the Mamba and standard members that are being returned to the local regions?

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garron View Post
    Just one question:

    Is national changing the percentage of dues for both the Mamba and standard members that are being returned to the local regions?
    Membership went up from $150 to $195
    Regional return went down from $75 to $55

    So previously I was giving $75 to the National, $75 to my region. Now it will be $140 to National, $55 to my region. Why? Because the few elected to manage the club, didn’t.

    Because we decided to spend hundreds of thousands on for each of Miami, Las Vegas, New Orleans. Because we decided to spend over $100k a year on 4 issues of a magazine. Because we decided to spend $10s of thousands a year on insurance. For what? Who knows.

    Because someone didn’t manage the club properly or have any idea what was going on for years. Because they knew we were in trouble over 6 months ago, kept it quiet, applied for a loan, threw a Miami party anyways, dropped it on the Regional presidents 2 months before National is out.

    Makes sense right?
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  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty1 View Post

    The president doesn't dictate spending or revenue decisions, the regional presidents comprising the board are responsible.
    This wouldn't be entirely accurate as leadership did put together all details of the plan, including rate increase, region split and magazine plans, presented and strongly recommended it in a meeting to the regions and put it to a vote as a complete plan without changes.
    Last edited by Bruce H.; 10-03-2021 at 11:51 PM.
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  13. #138
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    I think you’ll see plenty of members like me, who came from the VCA to become an original member of the VOA. I don’t attend functions or take advantage of anything other than the magazine, so since I’m not a Mamba member, I’d just be flushing my $150. In other words. I’m out. I won’t let the door hit me in the ass on the way out.
    -craig

  14. #139
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by Propsail View Post
    I think you’ll see plenty of members like me, who came from the VCA to become an original member of the VOA. I don’t attend functions or take advantage of anything other than the magazine, so since I’m not a Mamba member, I’d just be flushing my $150. In other words. I’m out. I won’t let the door hit me in the ass on the way out.
    -craig
    As a Standard member you'll still receive a full content Viper Quarterly digitally. No more stacks of magazines collecting dust on the shelf, fewer trees being cut down, less to recycle or send to landfill, and you'll look less like a hoarder to your friends! Let's do it for the planet, and help the VOA save money. Mambas can request just digital as well.

    Times are changing and we need to as well. Given what we now know, some believe we should have gone to digital years ago and saved hundreds and hundreds of thousands.

    Everyone should talk to your region presidents to let them know your thoughts. They are your voice.
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  15. #140
    has there been any consideration of lowering the fees and going jsut digital with a hardcopy available on a pre-order a-la-carte basis? with a significantly higher cost for non-members?

  16. #141
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT_BluByU View Post
    has there been any consideration of lowering the fees and going jsut digital with a hardcopy available on a pre-order a-la-carte basis? with a significantly higher cost for non-members?
    The problem with that is printing costs quickly become really prohibitive as printed quantity drops.
    2014 SRT Black TA, 69,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
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  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    The problem with that is printing costs quickly become really prohibitive as printed quantity drops.
    Bruce, exactly on the increase cost to print, but did I not read somewhere in these six pages of comments that Mamba members are getting a hard copy. I would like to know what the ACTUAL breakdown cost of the magizine is to produce - from gathering articles, formatting picture taking, shipping salaries and ANYTHING else that is paid out in one form or another either by advertisers or the club. How much money is the club actually saving my not printing a hard copy. As this seems to be the biggest expense the club has, or atleast that we know of.
    Last edited by CarolinaViper; 10-04-2021 at 10:26 AM.

  18. #143
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    Bruce, exactly on the increase cost to print, but did I not read somewhere in these six pages of comments that Mamba members are getting a hard copy. I would like to know what the ACTUAL breakdown cost of the magizine is to produce - from gathering articles, formatting picture taking, shipping salaries and ANYTHING else that is paid out in one form or another either by advertisers or the club. How much money is the club actually saving my not printing a hard copy. As this seems to be the biggest expense the club has, or atleast that we know of.
    Basically, non-printing costs are spread across all members who receive the magazine digitally, with the printing and distribution costs covered by the premium that Mamba members pay.
    2014 SRT Black TA, 69,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
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  19. #144
    Regional President
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    Yes, the VOA has taken out the loan.
    If VOA executives are taking paid trips, can you provide more details?
    The current VOA board terms are expiring this year and voting for the next board will being soon.

    I suggest you speak with your club president who can more details as to the recent announcements.
    FE #181

  20. #145
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    Just my $0.02 but I couldn't believe how not worth it the magazine is. Not because it isn't good, but because of how expensive it is. The magazine budget line is $148k. That means at a 2000 person distribution, and with only tiny ad revenue, over $70 of my annual dues are going to the magazine. Well over half of the cost of joining the club is to fund the creation some swag. That's not a jab at the quality (it's very well done for what it is), I just can't understand how in today's era of online content sharing (both in terms of real time tech support from the community, and photo sharing), a printed magazine is what we've hung our hat on as the primary membership investment. The forums, and organization of events (both local and national) are WAY more valuable than 10 minutes of slightly outdated (even if pretty) reading materials once a quarter.

    I appreciate the time volunteered by so many leaders in running the club - thank you. And, I honestly don't understand how any President voted to print any more issues given the current debt load and overall cost per issue. Reduce dues to $100 and give all of that toward growing the forum resources, attracting partners to keep our cars alive (like has been done with tires), and hosting events (regional and national).

    Anyone want to buy my rotary telephone?
    Last edited by Thawk97; 10-04-2021 at 11:24 AM.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    Basically, non-printing costs are spread across all members who receive the magazine digitally, with the printing and distribution costs covered by the premium that Mamba members pay.
    Bruce not what I asked. Does anybody have the answers to what I asked.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    No more stacks of magazines collecting dust on the shelf, fewer trees being cut down, less to recycle or send to landfill, and you'll look less like a hoarder to your friends! Let's do it for the planet, and help the VOA save money.
    You're joking right??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post

    Given what we now know, some believe we should have gone to digital years ago and saved hundreds and hundreds of thousands.
    Maybe some but certainly not all.
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  23. #148
    Regional President
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    I agree the Magazine costs are quite simply ridiculous, Being an international region the magazine is the only main link we receive from the club, apart from a plastic membership card. But what I find amazing is why the national officers year on year allowed so much of club funds to funneled into the printing of it. Being honest you can pretty much read the whole thing in an hour. Nice glossy pretty pictures and in early days features on Non Viper cars but other Dodge products. (which personally I had no interest in what so ever). Im a Viper Car guy not a Hellcat or charger guy or truck guy.

    Surely questions should have been asked of Mr Lang on reducing the material cost of the magazine (not by less content) but cheaper print options. At the end of the day its just a car club magazine, not something for sale in a Retail Bookshop.

    With the large adverts featured in the magazine, how much of the magazine costs are offset by the advertisements per issue? Does Mr Lang take a personal revenue from the club to produce it? if so how much?

    The UK region are going to try and have a meeting this coming weekend depending on numbers. But the feedback I am getting from current UK members is not favourable for the VOA.

    I also would like to know the date the next (Bumper) magazine will be published and mailed. Saying the last quarter is not good enough, my members want to know?

    I even have some members asking me for their membership monies back because they have not received anything since joining this summer.

  24. #149
    Regional President
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    JonB and ViperGirl, Beth didn't sign for anyone. We the Presidents all were present and were part of the discussions and voting.
    FE #181

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thawk97 View Post
    Just my $0.02 but I couldn't believe how not worth it the magazine is. Not because it isn't good, but because of how expensive it is. The magazine budget line is $148k. That means at a 2000 person distribution, and with only tiny ad revenue, over $70 of my annual dues are going to the magazine. Well over half of the cost of joining the club is to fund the creation some swag. That's not a jab at the quality (it's very well done for what it is), I just can't understand how in today's era of online content sharing (both in terms of real time tech support from the community, and photo sharing), a printed magazine is what we've hung our hat on as the primary membership investment. The forums, and organization of events (both local and national) are WAY more valuable than 10 minutes of slightly outdated (even if pretty) reading materials once a quarter.

    I appreciate the time volunteered by so many leaders in running the club - thank you. And, I honestly don't understand how any President voted to print any more issues given the current debt load and overall cost per issue. Reduce dues to $100 and give all of that toward growing the forum resources, attracting partners to keep our cars alive (like has been done with tires), and hosting events (regional and national).
    This pretty much sums up my view of the situation. The part I bolded should be the club's focus IMO (attracting partners to keep our cars alive).

    The club is not a magazine, and its financials should reflect that. Until it does, I'm out.
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