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  1. #26
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    I believe I have this same issue on my 2013 with 59,000 miles. I just had all four lower control arms replaced under extended warranty due to the bushings being dry out. At that time the Tech did replace about half of the rubber components that hold the rear end in to try and fix this issue but it didn't help. So the new control arms came with new lower ball joints so this is why I am looking else where for this problem. He told me that my rear wheel bearings where leaking a drop or two of grease. So that was enough to replace them. But they drug there feet on the deal "like four months" and my warranty is now over and they won't honor the claim even though I told them about it before the warranty was it up.

    Anyway that's what I am planning on changing out next. If you look at the service manual. Wheel bearings are the very first thing mentioned if you are trying to track down a noise that is coming from that area.
    2000 GTS built/Paxton:Sold
    2013 GTS
    2010 SRT10 Coupe

  2. #27
    Enthusiast GTS Dean's Avatar
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    I think there are a whole lot of bad mechanics taking clueless shots in the dark with these cars. Unless you are tracking them regularly, or putting tens of thousands of miles on bad roads, you aren't going to wear out wheel bearings, ball joints , or wishbone bushings. Bearings will drip just a smidgen of lube as they heat up and expand slightly. Rubber bushings will exhibit superficial surface cracks due to flex and oxidation while the overwhelming majority of the rubber mass is fine. Lower ball joints have the majority of loading and are sized as such.

    How is it possible that any major OEM auto manufacturer has combined problems with these components on low volume specialty cars that are broadly used for weekends and relatively short trips? They buy bearings, bushings and ball joints by the millions from quality suppliers that provide these components to ALL the big car builders.

    The fact that we can hear these noises is probably because the Viper has very little sound deadening material and we tend to be a hyper-aware owner group in general.
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMadMachinist View Post
    I believe I have this same issue on my 2013 with 59,000 miles. I just had all four lower control arms replaced under extended warranty due to the bushings being dry out. At that time the Tech did replace about half of the rubber components that hold the rear end in to try and fix this issue but it didn't help. So the new control arms came with new lower ball joints so this is why I am looking else where for this problem. He told me that my rear wheel bearings where leaking a drop or two of grease. So that was enough to replace them. But they drug there feet on the deal "like four months" and my warranty is now over and they won't honor the claim even though I told them about it before the warranty was it up.

    Anyway that's what I am planning on changing out next. If you look at the service manual. Wheel bearings are the very first thing mentioned if you are trying to track down a noise that is coming from that area.
    That might line up with this

    Wheel hub.jpg

  4. #29
    I thought those hub bolts should be torqued to 63 lb/ft? We’re currently thinking it might be the splines between the axle shaft and hub. I have a 6 microphone , switch box, headphone set i borrowed from a friend and im going to hook them up in different parts im curious about and see where it is loudest to narrow down the area componant. Most likely next weekend. Ill report back on my findings.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT_BluByU View Post
    I thought those hub bolts should be torqued to 63 lb/ft? We’re currently thinking it might be the splines between the axle shaft and hub. I have a 6 microphone , switch box, headphone set i borrowed from a friend and im going to hook them up in different parts im curious about and see where it is loudest to narrow down the area componant. Most likely next weekend. Ill report back on my findings.
    I think you are correct. That other forum post was from a gen 1 (I think).

    Rear suspension torque.jpg

  6. #31
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    As far as the dried out bushings. The car was making or I should say the suspension was making some pretty bad noise and there was defiantly slop in the bushings as I could feel it though the steering wheel when backing out my driveway. I will agree that their are plenty of clueless mechanics out there. I can with out a doubt confirm this was the case with my last four visits to my local dealership.

    GTS Dean, perhaps you miss the part where I said my car has 59,000 miles on it and a few track days. Not to mention I drive it pretty hard on a day to day basis. I don't beat on it but these car where mean to be driven.

    Also in this day and age one can never tell when or if a part will fail OEM or other wise. Long gone are the days when you could count on OEM parts to be the bench mark. Manufactures source parts from all over world these days and lets not forget that many products have planned life span built right into them in many cases that you as a consumer are not even aware of. How else are they going to count on repeat customer purchases if they make things that last forever.
    Last edited by TheMadMachinist; 10-16-2021 at 03:29 PM.
    2000 GTS built/Paxton:Sold
    2013 GTS
    2010 SRT10 Coupe

  7. #32
    Enthusiast GTS Dean's Avatar
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    I did miss that vital info! Good on you for running it hard and being attentive to details. I think the cavernous wheel wells echo and amplify any sounds that emanate from the corners.
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!

  8. #33
    Yea. Ut this isnt a normal type sound for any of us and you can tell standing by the wheel or with the windows down. I dont think this particular issue is about acoustics or lack of sound deadening material. I had the car on the rack again yesterday amd noticed the upper control arm to frame bolts were a little loose again. Retorqued an noise seem to go away again. I have to look into if these nuts are one time use and if they vibrate loose of time they cant just be retorqued and need to be replaced. My TA has around 45k mostly daily driver miles going to work on the highway.. so not hard use for sure.. but use that could loosen a bolt up.. im going to look in to that next and use the mic’s next weekend i think.

    I suspect when the hub was replaced in the other car above the control arm was removed and if a one time use bolt, wpuld have been replaced. Thereby curing the problem. Not certain just a theory……

  9. #34
    ok - I hooked the 6 mic switch box to different points I suspected and listened for the noise and repeated this process about 4 times narrowing down the area and specifics. Its loudest on the upper rear control arm bolt/bushing.. that seems to be the culprit.. rear diff is quiet, hub is quiet, calipers are quiet, shock is quiet.. think this is it. bad bushing in the rear upper control arm. is this a serviceable part? Has anyone else had issues with the control arm bushings?
    Last edited by SRT_BluByU; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:36 AM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT_BluByU View Post
    ok - I hooker the 6 mic switch box to different points I suspected and listened for the noise and repeated this process about 4 times narrowing down the area and specifics. Its loudest on the upper rear control arm bolt/bushing.. that seems to be the culprit.. rear diff is quiet, hub is quiet, calipers are quiet, shock is quiet.. think this is it. bad bushing in the rear upper control arm. is this a serviceable part? Has anyone else had issues with the control arm bushings?
    Control arm bushings were discontinued by Mopar (naturally). DSE sells an upgraded set though.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
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    2014 GTS in white with gunmetal stripes. I'm also one of the original 100's

  11. #36
    Update: as a follow up to using the microphone to isolate the noise i decided to make a video of the area for confirmation.. you can see the movement of the bushing while rocking the car back and forth a few feet.. looks like the bushings are unavailable and i dont want to change the type of bushing used so looks like ill need to order a replacement upper control arm. I’ll post up the picture of the old bushing after i get the new control arm installed and the old one out.



    Also here is a short clip of the upper ball joint/rear hub showing the deflection the rear upper control arm (rear bushing) is causing at the opposite end of the control arm. Hope this helps others trying to track down this noise. Once replaced ill follow up with the results of this diagnosis…





  12. #37
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    Mine did this forever, shop couldn't find it. Then one day it just went away lol
    @9literviper 2013 track car, 2016 ACR, 1996 GTS, 2001 RT/10, 2003 SRT/10

  13. #38
    to put closure to this issue here is the update:

    Since the bushing by itself was unavailable we replaced the entire upper control arm assembly and I can report the problem/noise is now gone. That bushing was it. looking at the old bushing it appears the bolt was somehow hitting the inner sleeve of the bushing (slop). And yes we checked the pre-load torque correctly on the old upper control arm bushing before we replaced it.. We also checked the axle nut while we were in there and it was already properly torqued. It wasn't a bad job to do.. although honestly I mostly watched with two great friends/techs doing most of the heavy lifting... thanks Fellas you all are the best!


    Hope this helps someone else..

  14. #39
    As a followup after about a week of daily driving the clunk remains gone.. no noise. Looks like the diagnosis was correct. Strangely, outside of the witness marks on the inside of the sleeve and bolt threads there is no obvious external signs of failure on the bushing.. and even the witness marks are minor (but apparently enough to make the clunk). With out the chassis microphones we wouldnt have found this.

  15. #40
    Enthusiast GTS Dean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT_BluByU View Post
    Update: as a follow up to using the microphone to isolate the noise i decided to make a video of the area for confirmation.. you can see the movement of the bushing while rocking the car back and forth a few feet.. looks like the bushings are unavailable and i dont want to change the type of bushing used so looks like ill need to order a replacement upper control arm. I’ll post up the picture of the old bushing after i get the new control arm installed and the old one out.


    It may be a pain to recreate the setup, but an "after" sequence would be nice to see and appreciated by many. Any rubber bushed suspension is going to have some relative movement. The issue is 'how much is too much?"
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!

  16. #41
    When I shot those videos I suspected the inner rubber bushing was somehow damaged.. My understanding is some folks with Dodge looked at the videos and mentioned this movement is to be expected. Looking the old bushing over after pulling the old control arm physically it looks ok (except for the witness marks noted above). I'll post some pictures of that buhsing and those mark tonight.. The bolt those goes through the bushing isnt a tight fit (even in the new setup) so not sure how it made noise before and not now.. When I replaced the upper control arm assembly I also replaced all the nuts and bolts holding it on.

    Maybe ill get in there and shoot another video of the after.. would be interesting to see the difference for sure. End result has ben satisfactory in that the noise is gone!

  17. #42
    update: I tried to get a good picture of the old bushing but the witness marks are so minor it was hard to photograph. Honestly looking at it nothing looks abnormal to the untrained eye. But that was the loudest sound on the chassis mic and when it was replaced the sound went away.. ?

    Wish I understood the dynamics of control arm to frame bushings more. I understand how the rubber isolator works w/pre-load and the movement up and down. however, the bolts that fasten it to the frame are not a tight tolerance to the inner bushing metal sleeve (same on the new parts - bushing and bolt). Im not sure how this doesn't allow the bushing to move under loading.. the torque spec on the bolts seems to be pretty low if I recall correctly.. id have to look it up but I think it was like 33 ft/lbs. is that enough clamping force to hold the bushing on the frame tabs with the dimpled end of the mtl that contacts the frame tabs on the bushings??

    I wonder if I would have put the car on the rack and loosed the bolts and then tightened them again with the correct ride height (preload) if it would have went away.. or even take the control arm out, tap the bushing 45* or so in its seat in the control arm, and then reinstall (at ride height/proper preload). If I ever did this again or get a noise like this that's something ill try first...

    btw - the replacement control arm assembly is $300-$500 and I couldn't see anything wrong with the old one.

    there ya have it.. more late night ramblings. hope this helps someone
    Last edited by SRT_BluByU; 1 Week Ago at 08:41 PM.

  18. #43
    Enthusiast Brian E's Avatar
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    You have another thread related to this issue and someone suggested that you should be able to replace the bushings with a Moog part number. What did you find out on those?
    Brian E

  19. #44
    Nothing.. already had upper control arm assembly enroute..

    But sounds plausible.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docmartin View Post
    Lol this has been turned off since I got the car day 1 but I did confirm... man I wish that had been the issue.



    Damn that sucks.

    I've been out of town and also very sick so I haven't driven the car. I did take the car in after I found a dealer with a tech that I trust/like. The story of my car just keeps getting worse and worse. I've been uncovering lots of little things since I've got it in July and had only been under the front of the car thus far.

    Attachment 49491

    This is bullshit... my car was in an accident. It clearly went off the road and up onto something. Viper tech figured out that the hood isn't original. Car had sat outside without hood on for a period of time. Bent front rims. Driver side of the car damage underneath. Looks like a fucking wave underneath although frame is fine and exhaust seems fine. Someone either repeatedly jacked the car up without using the proper jacking points and dented the hell out of the car or was legit trying to fix the body damage this way. Bolts underneath stretched out. The side skirt was legit cut around a stripped bolt so it could be removed. The tow truck driver hooked up to both rear lower control arms and marred them when pulling the car out. So many bolts missing all over the car. Rear diff drain bolt 50% backed out and covered with something. Random loose bolts. I can't believe this shit was missed in the PPI (bought the car virtually) and by the first tech that worked on my car in the area (that guy underfilled my oil by 2.5 qts). The guys I'm working with now took me back and let me look at the car and it is pretty obvious that the car has been through some shit. /rant

    Anyways... the tech tightened up bolts, greased up the ball joints, and changed the rear diff fluid. As of today I haven't noticed the popping noise. I've done a lot of digging on this and it seems relatively common. The three most common causes I've read about are the splines slipping/popping in the wheel hub (I think this was a gen 1 thread from another forum), dry/shitty ball joints, and something about the wheel stud holes stretching a bit?? (I don't fully recall that issue properly but others dealt with it).

    If you bought it from a dealer and they didn't notify you if the accident, you could possibly get compensation in court. Had this issue a few years back, and won in mediation. Original sales price+damages


 
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