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  1. #26
    Michael Kuchavik Sr.
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    The internet is a place for people to vent their thoughts without any regard to the truth or untruth. It is easy to type on a forum and criticize and vent whatever negativity you have. Every Board member volunteers their own time to make the club a fun experience for all the members. It is sad to see how an epidemic and some money errors have caused so much negativity. Meanwhile we have many qualified people working on steering the ship in the right direction. Business owners, accountants, etc are working on gathering data which is not easy to do in cash base business. They have volunteered because they believe in the club and are not going to let negativity from a forum steer them in any other direction. Beth is working many hours along with others to deliver options moving forward. I would appreciate you respect the hard work being done.
    WV/PA President

  2. #27
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    I’d love to have my questions answered but it seems that neither Beth nor Maurice have any interest. Not pointing fingers just simple questions to a simple issue those in charge wish to make obscure/complicated.
    Last edited by Drummerviper; 10-13-2021 at 08:29 PM.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herrsss View Post
    As intended in the bylaws a written request is to be submitted directly to the treasurer.
    I'm sorry but the text of the actual bylaw clearly does not provide for that "intent". The entire purpose of a bylaw is to avoid situations of "intent" which is why a specific process, procedure, or rule is created to deal with it. In this case, we have a bylaw that deals directly with the situation at hand of requesting financial information. You can disagree with it (perhaps suggest an amendment in the future), but that does not, at this juncture, change it.

    As the head executive of this organization, I would also submit that a message delivered to you would be a message received by the organization.

    The tactics here are just bizarre for an organization that claims to champion transparency.
    2006 SRT-10

  4. #29
    Beth Perry Sewell
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootie View Post
    This above just isn't right. So we're going to hide behind a technicality of a bylaw? It's obvious financials are wanting to be seen by members. Can't say I appreciate the attitude of 'submit a formal written request' if you want info. This can of worms was opened up and it's time to just put it all out there for everyone to see. Why try to make it difficult?? Doesn't seem like the right attitude for the President to preach procedure instead of making the info immediately available for every paying member to see.
    The bylaws were written 7+ years ago and had not contemplated requests via a forum post as opposed to a simple email to the treasurer (treasurer@driveviper.com).
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  5. #30
    Beth Perry Sewell
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    Folks, tell me exactly what financial information everyone wants to see. People are demanding information but nothing specific has been requested. What year(s) do you want? What level of detail do you want? Do you want every transaction received and disbursed over what time period? Do you want the tax return filed with the IRS? Please specify . . .
    '08 Venom Red Roadster with ACR aero
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkviper96 View Post
    The internet is a place for people to vent their thoughts without any regard to the truth or untruth. It is easy to type on a forum and criticize and vent whatever negativity you have. Every Board member volunteers their own time to make the club a fun experience for all the members. It is sad to see how an epidemic and some money errors have caused so much negativity.
    Some money errors?

    The reason why some people are so upset is because at the surface level, it looks like a repeat of what happened with the VCA. Prove to us this is not the VCA all over again.

    That's why people want more details/info, because they want to be able to determine whether or not that's the case for themselves rather than taking someone else's word for it.

    The information that has been provided to date has shown that this is a magazine club that kinda likes Vipers. I'm sure there's more to the story than that, but if you follow the dollars, that's where it is pointing. The board has made the decision to raise the dues for everyone to support the magazine's continuation. They are most certainly free to make that decision...whether or not that pays off remains to be seen.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herrsss View Post
    The bylaws were written 7+ years ago and had not contemplated requests via a forum post as opposed to a simple email to the treasurer (treasurer@driveviper.com).
    The bylaws should be updated regularly, and if they're not, it's really hard in a situation such as this for you to say how it's intended to be read or not.

    For one, I didn't know the treasurer's email address until this post, so I would've had no idea how to contact them outside of this forum. Maybe the treasurer answers their email regularly. I sent an email to admin@driveviper.com yesterday afternoon and have yet to get a reply.

    Beth, I'm sure you're a great person and more than likely inherited this issue, but the way it's being described at surface level, the way it's been mentioned that all members will receive an 'email' (and haven't), etc etc etc, is not a great look for the organization.

    The regional Presidents should take some type of vote within their region about continuing the magazine as it is, or lessening that cost. I think the membership would have a different view on raising dues to cover a magazine.

  8. #33
    Supporting Vendor JonB ~ PartsRack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkviper96 View Post
    The internet is a place for people to vent their thoughts without any regard to the truth or untruth. It is easy to type on a forum and criticize and vent whatever negativity you have.

    Every Board member volunteers their own time to make the club a fun experience for all the members. It is sad to see how an epidemic and some money errors have caused so much negativity.

    Meanwhile we have many qualified people working on steering the ship in the right direction. Business owners, accountants, etc are working on gathering data which is not easy to do in cash base business. They have volunteered because they believe in the club and are not going to let negativity from a forum steer them in any other direction.

    Beth is working many hours along with others to deliver options moving forward. I would appreciate you respect the hard work being done.

    Michael, VOA-VP:

    You are not addressing a collection of internet trolls here! They are not shouting the proverbial "FIRE" without already smelling some wisps of smoke. The vast majority of 225+ questions and comments in two threads [one closed!] are from paying Members, Financial Supporters, Owner-enthusiasts, and past (Legacy) members. Some have paid $1000++ supporting the VOA. Some far more. Some entire REGIONS are acting on paid-member concerns.

    So, please do not insinuate that these commentators are doing so 'without regard to the truth....' This quest is in fact to uncover, determine, and hopefully publish the truth. Then make repairs.

    The prior club had a BOD who was for the most part well-intended, but asleep at the ship's tiller. The VOA 'founders' promised that would never happen again. Some of those very same BOD are on this newer ship. Some eagerly await the Fin-Com report..some are ZZZzzz-ing away in their ship's smokey cabins.

    (I am told that you may have aspirations of becoming the 2022-24 VOA prez? [And running unopposed for that next month?] And you may even be the non-CPA Team Leader of the 3 CPAs of the new Fin-Com, scheduled to report to BOD next month? And maybe to Member/Supporters too?

    If so, Good Luck with the volunteer tasks at hand. If not, please forgive my misinformed mistake.)

    JonB, Past Volunteer:

    IVR Charter Regional President - 1993-4
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    Last edited by JonB ~ PartsRack; 10-14-2021 at 02:18 PM.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herrsss View Post
    Folks, tell me exactly what financial information everyone wants to see. People are demanding information but nothing specific has been requested. What year(s) do you want? What level of detail do you want? Do you want every transaction received and disbursed over what time period? Do you want the tax return filed with the IRS? Please specify . . .
    Beth,

    Okay, you asked, so here are the only questions I would liked answered. Should not be hard at all.

    !. Would like to see what was subitted to the bank that processed the SBA loan to include a Balance sheet and a Profit and Loss Statement. I'm surprised we were approved.
    2. Breakdown (detailed gathering/designing/assembling/printing/mailing/) of the cost of the quaeterly Magazine and who gets what
    3. Cost breakdown of the NVE4 (Mainly the cost related to all tracking events - and who got paid)
    4. How many members actually tracked their Vipers opposed to those that didn't and funded those that did
    5. Membership decline or increase since 2018
    6. How many 1099s were given out and what FOR and total reinbursement expese the club paid out, plus salaries by position.
    7. Profit & Loss of the Club's Viper Store, to include purchases and sales for the last five years
    8. Estimated Budgeted cost to produce the quarterly magizine for an on-line basis and the cost to print them for the Mamba members. Surely we have one done.
    9. Balance Sheet and Income Statement since 2014. If we were not required to do one...SHOULD make it a requirement in the future, its a great tool to have on hand.
    10. A Year-by-year comparision sheet (Maybe a IRS Schedule E) that includes all revenues and expenses broken down since 2014. Again, if we don't do one great idea if we did, as then the BOD could see the broader breakdown in the club's finances to avert the financial situation we are in.


    Beth, just a few, but the ones I would like to see answered. Not hard to do, as my CPA does this for our business and more for around $1200. I'm sure my company is a littler more complicated than the club's return would be. I would even suggest having an oustide CPA firm do it and pay them.

    Please feel free to answer the items on the forum, as I would assume many otheres have the same concerns.

    Jeff Barnes

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkviper96 View Post
    It is sad to see how an epidemic and some money errors have caused so much negativity.
    Well, this certainly doesn't rise to the seriousness of that time when 'some people did some things.' But the fact that history is repeating itself in uncanny fashion begets angst and distrust.
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!

  11. #36
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    Absolutely ridiculous that the recent membership renewal email does not talk about, or disclose the current financial situation AND the steps being taken to remedy the problem.
    2009 Vert/Coupe Rear End. Intake/Head/Exhaust. 705 crank/614 Wheels. Custom Red Drivers Stripe. ACR Splitter. KW Shocks. Plastidipped 6 spokes.

  12. #37
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket View Post
    Absolutely ridiculous that the recent membership renewal email does not talk about, or disclose the current financial situation AND the steps being taken to remedy the problem.
    Completely agree. Its bordering on blatant lies!

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket View Post
    Absolutely ridiculous that the recent membership renewal email does not talk about, or disclose the current financial situation AND the steps being taken to remedy the problem.
    I agree.

    I won't be renewing.

  14. #39
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    I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that they are counting on the vast majority of members that don't use the forums (and I'm guessing that number is high) to just blindly accept the dues increase casually mentioned in the renewal email and dig no further.

    And the sad thing is it'll probably work.
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  15. #40
    VOA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboy 18 View Post
    Completely agree. Its bordering on blatant lies!
    And the whole concept of a store credit just disappeared (though I disliked the concept from the beginning), without a corresponding reduction in the dues. Just makes the increase appear larger. In summary for a standard membership it is a $35 increase (30%) with the loss of a printed magazine. For Mamba it is a $45 (30%) increase with status quo for benefits.

    From the 9/27 official email:
    Standard Membership
    Increases from $115 to $150
    Digital copy of Viper Quarterly
    Option to receive the printed version of the magazine at your cost
    $20 gift certificate to be used in the VOA store as a thank you gift for renewing/joining

    Mamba Membership
    Increases from $150 to $195
    Printed copy of Viper Quarterly
    Also includes the digital version of Viper Quarterly
    $35 gift certificate to the VOA store as a thank you gift for renewing/joining

    And from the most recent official email on 10/19:

    Standard membership level has increased from $115 to $150 for the following benefits:
    1. Virtual (only) VIPER QUARTERLY Magazine, our AWARD WINNING publication! The magazine is really two magazines in one, covering both the car itself and highlighting club events around the world.
    2. Your VOA membership card(s) and ID Badge(s)
    3. General liability insurance when attending VOA sponsored events as defined by the insurance policy (certain events require purchasing an additional rider)
    4. Access to the VOA Tech Team which provides completely free technical assistance for all Vipers!
    5. Discounts with select Viper Owners Association sponsors including many Mopar dealers, tuners, and aftermarket vendors
    6. Special membership-only access and posting benefits on the Viper Owners Association Website www.driveviper.com
    7. Viper Owners will also be noted on the website forum pages with the designation of "Member"
    8. Free classified ads in the VOA classified section
    9. Special VOA gift included with your registration
    10. Use of VOA Headquarters - your club concierge
    11. VOA member-only offers/specials and freebies
    12. VOA newsletter which keeps you intimately aware of Viper news, club activities, and special deals
    13. Membership to your selected local VOA region
    14. Membership in the LARGEST national Viper club on the planet

    Mamba membership level has increased from $150 to $195 and you will receive all the benefits listed above plus:
    1. PRINTED and virtual VIPER QUARTERLY Magazine, our AWARD WINNING publication!
    2. Special Mamba Membership badges
    3. Mamba decal (3" X 3")
    4. Special tag of "Mamba" on the VOA website forums
    5. Public acknowledgment on the special Mamba Membership appreciation page in VIPER QUARTERLY Magazine
    6. Discounts on VOA national events

  16. #41
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    Crazy.

    I'm still waiting on my welcome packet.

  17. #42
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    Viper Officers Association isn't going to work for the new national club name, you'll have to change that...
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  18. #43
    Regional Treasurer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve M View Post
    I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that they are counting on the vast majority of members that don't use the forums (and I'm guessing that number is high) to just blindly accept the dues increase casually mentioned in the renewal email and dig no further.

    And the sad thing is it'll probably work.
    ^ Bingo. It may work unless the regions take a stand to inform their members that not only are their dues increasing and standard members are getting less, but their region funding is also being cut. Lots of whammies to support a club that now revolves around a magazine.

  19. #44
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GTS View Post
    ^ Bingo. It may work unless the regions take a stand to inform their members that not only are their dues increasing and standard members are getting less, but their region funding is also being cut. Lots of whammies to support a club that now revolves around a magazine.
    Alright…. What will you say when the Presidents do this and they find that a majority of their members (or at least the ones that provided the feedback) say that not only do they want the magazine to stick around, but that they cant believe that membership dues haven't gone up in seven years and that they are happy to pay the increase. This seems to be the overwhelming sentiment in my region. I think we can all agree that we don't want to see the VOA fail. I know I don’t. I was there for all the VCA drama and DO NOT want to go through that again. This is a difficult time for the national club and it needs folks that are willing to step in and make the decisions to help get the club back into the black. Ive had a couple conversations with Mike K. and listened to his vision for the club and how to move it forward. I have a very good feeling about the future of the VOA.

    Am i happy that my region is only receiving $55 per member for dues in 2022. ABSOLUTELY NOT! However, I have been told that the dues issue will be revisited down the road (possibly renewal time for ‘23) to see if its feasible to increase it back to the 50/50 split, or maybe more. I think there are good things ahead for the National club, it starts with a change in the culture of how its run which I feel we will see.
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  20. #45
    Regional Treasurer
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    ^ I never said to do away with the magazine altogether, only that it is the primary focus of the club which I question. Members haven't even gotten what they were promised this year.....so I'm not sure double dipping into member's pockets via dues increase / region cutbacks AND also decreasing benefits is a well balanced approach for success. ...and then there is the $175k loan. A car club should be simple.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01sapphirebob View Post
    Alright…. What will you say when the Presidents do this and they find that a majority of their members (or at least the ones that provided the feedback) say that not only do they want the magazine to stick around, but that they cant believe that membership dues haven't gone up in seven years and that they are happy to pay the increase. This seems to be the overwhelming sentiment in my region. I think we can all agree that we don't want to see the VOA fail. I know I don’t. I was there for all the VCA drama and DO NOT want to go through that again. This is a difficult time for the national club and it needs folks that are willing to step in and make the decisions to help get the club back into the black. Ive had a couple conversations with Mike K. and listened to his vision for the club and how to move it forward. I have a very good feeling about the future of the VOA.

    Am i happy that my region is only receiving $55 per member for dues in 2022. ABSOLUTELY NOT! However, I have been told that the dues issue will be revisited down the road (possibly renewal time for ‘23) to see if its feasible to increase it back to the 50/50 split, or maybe more. I think there are good things ahead for the National club, it starts with a change in the culture of how its run which I feel we will see.
    The problem is more about the lack of transparency rather thant the price increase wich most would'nt care in other circomstances. Right now they are doing it to cover the cashflow problem but they don't seem to know for sure what caused it... We have a board that include a cpa, and businesses owners and they're telling us that they didnt saw it coming.... wow.... Im not sure their businesses are managed the same way... I understand they are doing it for free but they volunteered so it should be done right... For a start they should have axed the cheap chinese gift a long time ago even if its cost 1$ and the id badge

    You also talk about the dues... some regions didnt received theirs....
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian venom View Post
    The problem is more about the lack of transparency rather thant the price increase wich most would'nt care in other circomstances. Right now they are doing it to cover the cashflow problem but they don't seem to know for sure what caused it... We have a board that include a cpa, and businesses owners and they're telling us that they didnt saw it coming.... wow.... Im not sure their businesses are managed the same way... I understand they are doing it for free but they volunteered so it should be done right... For a start they should have axed the cheap chinese gift a long time ago even if its cost 1$ and the id badge

    You also talk about the dues... some regions didnt received theirs....
    Agreed.

    When Beth first posted the thread about increasing dues, I was all on board. I even made a post saying how it was about time, the club can do more, etc....then everything else came to light.

  23. #48
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    Anybody have an update on progress of audit? On track to be shared on Nov 14?
    A few words of CAUTION to those who think
    a VIPER looks MEAN, ARROGANT and HOSTILE...
    CUT OUT THE FLATTERY!

  24. #49
    Supporting Vendor JonB ~ PartsRack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01sapphirebob View Post
    Alright….... Ive had a couple conversations with Mike K. and listened to his vision for the club and how to move it forward. I have a very good feeling about the future of the VOA.

    Am i happy that my region is only receiving $55 per member for dues in 2022? ABSOLUTELY NOT! However, I have been told that the dues issue will be revisited down the road (possibly renewal time for ‘23) to see if its feasible to increase it back to the 50/50 split, or maybe more. I think there are good things ahead for the National club, it starts with a change in the culture of how its run which I feel we will see.
    See Mike K.'s post above, #33 in this thread. Not much is transparent in this situation, but I believe he's 'running' for prez. He also might be the Fin-Com's manager, overseeing 3 internal CPAs. [ I could be wrong, I predicted Trump would win.]

    Maybe he will discover [and report] the how-and-why the CPA-Treasurer was able to encumber the Non-Profit VOA with $175K of SBA debt.

    It does appear that 16 folks have joined or renewed since the changes were announced. Membership was 1740 as I recall, now is 1756.
    Last edited by JonB ~ PartsRack; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:54 PM.
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  25. #50
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    This whole thing is nuts and it seems no one has learned by past mistakes, although I sincerely hope this exercise does not approach the misdeeds of VCA. I think one of the best and in the final analysis may be the most telling comment here was this became a magazine club (wish I could remember who said it). This has the feel of someone or a group of folks profited or tried to off the good nature of true enthusiasts. Either that or remained quiet to save one or more . As a lawyer practicing for 38 years I’d love to cross examining a couple of people. I’ve owned 11 Vipers and like Jon I’ve been around since almost day one. I’ve asked questions here no one will answer and I’d like to think our friend Maurice, an icon would weigh in but he continues to be silent which is deafening. The cost is irrelevant, but why anyone wants to be part of this going forward is beyond me. I’m a member of many car clubs but none with the sad history of Viper—the great American sports car that deserves better .
    17 GTS-R, 92 Viper, (Lutz VIN 00002) , 06 Heritage Ford GT, 19 Ferrari 488 Pista,
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