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  1. #276
    Enthusiast Fatboy 18's Avatar
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    If there are any members out there that have not received info from their region President or do not have a region drop me your email address via private message and I will send out what I have.
    and include you on the mail list. That's called being open and transparent. It will only go out to Current VOA members.

  2. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatboy 18 View Post
    If there are any members out there that have not received info from their region President or do not have a region drop me your email address via private message and I will send out what I have.
    and include you on the mail list. That's called being open and transparent. It will only go out to Current VOA members.
    You're the man!

  3. #278
    Enthusiast Fatboy 18's Avatar
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    2 emails replied to, mark

  4. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Loud View Post
    I doubt it.
    Agreed!
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  5. #280
    To my knowledge, the South Florida Region has not sent out the data yet.

  6. #281

    Duty to Disclose

    The data is material to the decision to renew. Failure to provide it directly to all current members who are considering renewing is not consistent with transparency and the collegiality that should be present within the VOA.

  7. #282
    Wesley Frasard
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    And how do members like I, not affiliated with any region, get any information of the audit (or non-audit, or whatever)?
    Just send me an e-mail and I will can setup a zoom and give you the brief and answer your questions...that goes for anyone who thinks the brief is being hidden from the general membership.

    You should note that this is a financial review of the records to determine if an independent audit should happen which will be approved by the BOD not the VOA president; this could cost the club another $10K we don't have, best case... However, too many have used that term "audit" so loosely that it been given a life of it own.

    Just to be clear, each year holds over 17,000 records to review x 8 years = 136,000+ lines of data to go through. With each volunteer and 30-days to conduct their review before collaborating on the facts found/discovered, assuming you have no families and are going to work 8 hours a day for 30 days after your regular job, that gives you about 6 seconds a record; without a break, taking a phone call, eating, etc... By the way, there is also over 8,000 lines of records that have to be redacted per year because it hold personally identifiable information which needs to be removed before any release to the public occurs or each person, within the record, must be notified and approve their name for release, with a written consent form, for the record's release. So, that is another item that has to be completed before the records become open for review unless we redact it.

    In the end, just no logical way a full and through review was ever going to happen in 30-days, sorry. Yes, all records, the good bad and the ugly as most would like to think, will be made public once the financial team agrees that the review is complete and that are numbers align with each team members review to ensure accuracy (most important) before transparency (only second most important to accuracy). We will not delete any lines. We may change what they say within the lines for a specific name of a person to a position if the information is for something like travel. Where as every line with a name associated for an NVE, membership renewal, or store purchase will simply be redacted / blacked out.

    In the end the Financial Team was established by the VOA President but it works for and responds to the VOA Board of Directors who represents the membership. The VOA Board of Directors is represented by all 37 Regional Presidents + the 4 Nationally Elected members.
    Last edited by viperguy69; 11-16-2021 at 09:20 AM.
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  8. #283
    After reviewing the deck (thank you Loud) i was left more frustrated than before.

    Slide 3 shows what the team looked at... From my viewing of this slide deck they checked off the items they did and left blank boxes by the things they didnt...

    "specifically performed an in-depth review of VOA national overhead costs" is checked
    "attempted to perform an in-depth review of Viper quarterly Magazine" is NOT checked.

    So basically the single largest line item isn't reviewed.

    Just an example of what I picked out the slide deck.

    The other Elephant in the room (their words, not mine) is the 175K loan...
    Their BEST presented plan (based on 1300 members) for 2022 has $3600 in the green... that doesnt make much of a payment on 175K...
    According to them, their new planned numbers "work" to fix the club. But no where in the numbers does it cover loan repayment.
    Dave
    98 Viper GTS

  9. #284
    VOA Mamba Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by viperguy69 View Post
    Just send me an e-mail and I will can setup a zoom and give you the brief and answer your questions...that goes for anyone who thinks the brief is being hidden from the general membership.

    You should note that this is a financial review of the records to determine if an independent audit should happen which will be approved by the BOD not the VOA president; this could cost the club another $10K we don't have, best case... However, too many have used that term "audit" so loosely that it been given a life of it own.

    Just to be clear, each year holds over 17,000 records to review x 8 years = 136,000+ lines of data to go through. With each volunteer and 30-days to conduct their review before collaborating on the facts found/discovered, assuming you have no families and are going to work 8 hours a day for 30 days after your regular job, that gives you about 6 seconds a record; without a break, taking a phone call, eating, etc... By the way, there is also over 8,000 lines of records that have to be redacted per year because it hold personally identifiable information which needs to be removed before any release to the public occurs or each person, within the record, must be notified and approve their name for release, with a written consent form, for the record's release. So, that is another item that has to be completed before the records become open for review unless we redact it.

    In the end, just no logical way a full and through review was ever going to happen in 30-days, sorry. Yes, all records, the good bad and the ugly as most would like to think, will be made public once the financial team agrees that the review is complete and that are numbers align with each team members review to ensure accuracy (most important) before transparency (only second most important to accuracy). We will not delete any lines. We may change what they say within the lines for a specific name of a person to a position if the information is for something like travel. Where as every line with a name associated for an NVE, membership renewal, or store purchase will simply be redacted / blacked out.

    In the end the Financial Team was established by the VOA President but it works for and responds to the VOA Board of Directors who represents the membership. The VOA Board of Directors is represented by all 37 Regional Presidents + the 4 Nationally Elected members.
    Thanks for your explanation.

    Just to explain from the general membership....WE didn't set a 30 day window to complete it. Sounds like you feel like that wasn't enough time in order to fulfill what was asked of the 4 members of the financial team. If that's the case, it goes to show you how out of touch from reality National is.

    I read it before you took it out but hadn't responded yet. I think $10,000 spent on an external audit would be the best money VOA could spend at the moment. It's the ONLY way for members to have any kind of trust back within the organization.

  10. #285
    Regional Membership Director
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cost4133 View Post
    After reviewing the deck (thank you Loud) i was left more frustrated than before.

    Slide 3 shows what the team looked at... From my viewing of this slide deck they checked off the items they did and left blank boxes by the things they didnt...

    "specifically performed an in-depth review of VOA national overhead costs" is checked
    "attempted to perform an in-depth review of Viper quarterly Magazine" is NOT checked.

    So basically the single largest line item isn't reviewed.

    Just an example of what I picked out the slide deck.

    The other Elephant in the room (their words, not mine) is the 175K loan...
    Their BEST presented plan (based on 1300 members) for 2022 has $3600 in the green... that doesnt make much of a payment on 175K...
    According to them, their new planned numbers "work" to fix the club. But no where in the numbers does it cover loan repayment.
    I find it very disturbing that we don't know the cost's , profit's , and liability's of our " World Class Viper Magazine Quarterly !!!"
    Which seems to be one of if Not our Biggest liabilities /Debt's to our Club !
    Charter Member ,

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by J TNT View Post
    I find it very disturbing that we don't know the cost's , profit's , and liability's of our " World Class Viper Magazine Quarterly !!!"
    Which seems to be one of if Not our Biggest liabilities /Debt's to our Club !
    Profits?

    Yeah right.

    Only a few people are profiting from it, and it's not the organization.

  12. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by J TNT View Post
    I find it very disturbing that we don't know the cost's , profit's , and liability's of our " World Class Viper Magazine Quarterly !!!"
    Which seems to be one of if Not our Biggest liabilities /Debt's to our Club !
    i think they do know them. But they were not in that slide deck (nor is 99% of the financial info) But the fact that the slide deck makes it look like it was completely NOT looked at is where i have the problem.
    Dave
    98 Viper GTS

  13. #288
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    Does anyone find it odd that National is not giving out information, however are still hot on the trail for renewals? I think that's morally wrong.

  14. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by viperguy69 View Post
    Just send me an e-mail and I will can setup a zoom and give you the brief and answer your questions...that goes for anyone who thinks the brief is being hidden from the general membership.
    Many thanks for the offer, also to the two presidents who sent me a message. I got it in the meantime from a president and am thankful for that! I'll have a detailed look at it later.
    1998 Viper GTS | 2017 Shelby GT350

  15. #290
    Enthusiast Fatboy 18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13COBRA View Post
    Does anyone find it odd that National is not giving out information, however are still hot on the trail for renewals? I think that's morally wrong.
    Yes 100% agree.

  16. #291
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cost4133 View Post
    After reviewing the deck (thank you Loud) i was left more frustrated than before.

    Slide 3 shows what the team looked at... From my viewing of this slide deck they checked off the items they did and left blank boxes by the things they didnt...

    "specifically performed an in-depth review of VOA national overhead costs" is checked
    "attempted to perform an in-depth review of Viper quarterly Magazine" is NOT checked.

    So basically the single largest line item isn't reviewed.

    Just an example of what I picked out the slide deck.

    The other Elephant in the room (their words, not mine) is the 175K loan...
    Their BEST presented plan (based on 1300 members) for 2022 has $3600 in the green... that doesnt make much of a payment on 175K...
    According to them, their new planned numbers "work" to fix the club. But no where in the numbers does it cover loan repayment.

    As I understand it, the club has only used about $40k of the $175k loan. So we have have about $135k left over. If we dont use any of the rest of it we give it back and would then only be on the hook for what we spent of it.
    VOA 2022 Communication Team Member, 2022 VOA Membership Committee Member

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  17. #292
    I have been holding off for a bit, but I have to say this. They are protecting the magazine because it sounds like the magazine is someones personal income. I say cut the magazine, have each region come out with their own news letter and watch how fast someone will cut ties with the club.
    It is the only thing that makes sense to me as why they are protecting this magazine so much. From what I read was they attempted to looking into the magazine financials and they could not... That is a huge red flag for fraud if that is the case, sorry it is what it is.

  18. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by 01sapphirebob View Post
    As I understand it, the club has only used about $40k of the $175k loan. So we have have about $135k left over. If we dont use any of the rest of it we give it back and would then only be on the hook for what we spent of it.
    The amount used of the loan doesnt matter at this point. the FACT is that the club took 175K loan, which means we owe payments on 175K. Even if we use 40K, and give the rest back, there is still no plan to payback that 40K loan included in the financials provided. But as we stand today, we owe the 175K.
    Dave
    98 Viper GTS

  19. #294
    This seems to be going pretty well. At a minimum, could all these highly degreed folks get someone to proofread this mess?
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  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevert View Post
    I have been holding off for a bit, but I have to say this. They are protecting the magazine because it sounds like the magazine is someones personal income. I say cut the magazine, have each region come out with their own news letter and watch how fast someone will cut ties with the club.
    It is the only thing that makes sense to me as why they are protecting this magazine so much. From what I read was they attempted to looking into the magazine financials and they could not... That is a huge red flag for fraud if that is the case, sorry it is what it is.
    Unfortunately, I think you are 100% correct.

    I don't necessarily think it's fraud, but I do think we will find it tips the scales in favor of being wrong.

    Also, I'd bet a LOT of money that the club is paying well above market value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerviper View Post
    This seems to be going pretty well. At a minimum, could all these highly degreed folks get someone to proofread this mess?
    Did you see the info?

  21. #296
    Enthusiast Brian GTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cost4133 View Post
    The amount used of the loan doesnt matter at this point. the FACT is that the club took 175K loan, which means we owe payments on 175K. Even if we use 40K, and give the rest back, there is still no plan to payback that 40K loan included in the financials provided. But as we stand today, we owe the 175K.
    Yes. I feel the main focus should be to knocking out the debt instead of leaving it in the "Elephant in the room" section. Think about it.....having a $175k loan hanging out there for a recreational car club is simply outlandish....and coincidently never mentioned in any of the National --> Member direct communications.

    It would be good PR to have it GONE, or at least have a plan to have it gone within the next year. IMO, we should be re-budgeting the magazine expenses to satisfy that loan.....at least temporarily. If it's true that only $40k of the loan is used, then have a recovery plan to only offer 2 or 3 magazines next year....Spring, Summer, (and Fall issue if afforded)....and OPENLY explain that to members. However, brain storming ideas about the most significant expense the club has is not something that seems to be open for discussion in the BoD meetings. The meeting agenda is designed to avoid discussing magazine expenses.

  22. #297
    I was given the zoom meeting recording... browsing through it, I am noticing one major thing going on.. Beth is fighting hard to keep the magazine and Maurice being paid. A president made mention that all regions should share photos and articles and some people from national put together a digital newsletter... Beth didn't like that.. Something is up... It is actually crazy to me that they are justifying the magazine and refuse to not publish for 2022 as they are saying they already promised hard copies for 2022.
    I am not able to put together a digital newsletter, but I am pretty sure the VOA could gather articles and photos from each region and have some college kids put it together for us for 1/8 of the cost, its just nobody wants to venture away from the norm. Sad...

  23. #298
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GTS View Post
    The meeting agenda is designed to avoid discussing magazine expenses.
    Well there's one president that keeps drawing attention to it, but he's quite the complainer and whiner everyone's been told.
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  24. #299
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    I'm starting to realize why Maurice hasn't jumped in.

  25. #300
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    Well there's one president that keeps drawing attention to it, but he's quite the complainer and whiner everyone's been told.
    That or selfish and greedy, lol.
    A few words of CAUTION to those who think
    a VIPER looks MEAN, ARROGANT and HOSTILE...
    CUT OUT THE FLATTERY!


 
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