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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    Great Idea, but do you really think it will happen.
    Sure it could, with the right push and backing.

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  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlknBlu View Post
    Dump the Magazine and NVE for 2 years till we get back on our feet. Please rejoin to keep the club going. what took a few years will not be resolved overnight.

    Long live VOA

    Bruce
    Agree. The magazine doesn't define the club, the people do. Get back to basics. Pause the magazine, get back to a simple VOA Quarterly e-zine that's not worried about winning awards. This doesn't solve for root cause but will help refocus the club. Root cause is another matter.
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  3. #403
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    I agree, can the mags and NVE's until club is back on it's feet.
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  4. #404
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    Root cause for the situation we are in, in my opinion, is ineffective management of finances and not tracking the basics. Sure, we can learn from this and get better, not the end of the world. This went along with friendly favors taking precedence over health of club [no proof, my opinion, prove me wrong, show the finances].

    Root cause for the downfall will be lack of transparency of finances, ignoring questions from members, keeping up with the same decisions that brought us here. This is the much bigger problem. Where are the so called "leaders" who love to preach others to "lead" when their input here is most needed?

    I've heard offline comments that some folks on the forums are here for the sole purpose to destroy VOA and the posts are baseless products of active imaginations. Then, whytf aren't they here to sort it straight?

    So extremely fed up.
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  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loud View Post
    Root cause for the situation we are in, in my opinion, is ineffective management of finances and not tracking the basics. Sure, we can learn from this and get better, not the end of the world. This went along with friendly favors taking precedence over health of club [no proof, my opinion, prove me wrong, show the finances].

    Root cause for the downfall will be lack of transparency of finances, ignoring questions from members, keeping up with the same decisions that brought us here. This is the much bigger problem. Where are the so called "leaders" who love to preach others to "lead" when their input here is most needed?

    I've heard offline comments that some folks on the forums are here for the sole purpose to destroy VOA and the posts are baseless products of active imaginations. Then, whytf aren't they here to sort it straight?

    So extremely fed up.
    I hope they're talking about me.

    What a load of crap.

    I'm just some punk kid that loves cars and loves to race them.

    I hate people that don't accept their own mistakes.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loud View Post
    Root cause for the situation we are in, in my opinion, is ineffective management of finances and not tracking the basics. Sure, we can learn from this and get better, not the end of the world. This went along with friendly favors taking precedence over health of club [no proof, my opinion, prove me wrong, show the finances].

    Root cause for the downfall will be lack of transparency of finances, ignoring questions from members, keeping up with the same decisions that brought us here. This is the much bigger problem. Where are the so called "leaders" who love to preach others to "lead" when their input here is most needed?

    I've heard offline comments that some folks on the forums are here for the sole purpose to destroy VOA and the posts are baseless products of active imaginations. Then, whytf aren't they here to sort it straight?

    So extremely fed up.
    Anil-

    Join one of the committees, maybe the Magazine committee, to shape the future direction. You have had insightful input, but actions are needed. More hands less work. You've demonstrated you have the time for a couple extra hours a week. Whatever committee, I'll join too. We can do it together which will mean even less work.

    After all, it's just a freak'n car club.

    Brian
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  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlknBlu View Post
    Not true, Cheryl has been all over this and attended several of the meetings. I have been getting regular emails from her.

    Bruce
    Never said anything about Cheryl not being all over this, didn't even know the email would come from Cheryl. I only stated I never received an email about these issues until yesterday, unless somehow I missed an email...
    The hub of the club is pretty far away from me so emails have been my only port of communication.
    Last edited by Sniper; 11-19-2021 at 04:42 PM.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperenvy View Post
    Anil-

    Join one of the committees, maybe the Magazine committee, to shape the future direction. You have had insightful input, but actions are needed. More hands less work. You've demonstrated you have the time for a couple extra hours a week. Whatever committee, I'll join too. We can do it together which will mean even less work.

    After all, it's just a freak'n car club.

    Brian
    I do not have an extra couple hours a week, but I will make more hours available and join these committees if:

    - Finances are released immediately
    - Mag is put on hold immediately
    - NVE is paused

    Let us then form committees to see what can be achieved. Maurice is the chair for the mag committee? AYFKM?

    Actions are needed by the National leaders who are in charge. My actions are needed by the AZ regional members and to do what is best for the AZ region. No reason for me to post about what actions I've taken or done with my region.

    A
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  9. #409
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperenvy View Post
    Anil-

    Join one of the committees, maybe the Magazine committee, to shape the future direction. You have had insightful input, but actions are needed. More hands less work. You've demonstrated you have the time for a couple extra hours a week. Whatever committee, I'll join too. We can do it together which will mean even less work.

    After all, it's just a freak'n car club.

    Brian
    You asked me to do they same on a FB post...join a committee. Brian, I did that for two yearsas a region president and could not change their minds. I received phone calls after a presidents meeting about why I was asking Maurice about the expenses of the NVE. The person that called me (if I recall correctly and I'm pretty sure of it) is now the chairperson for NVE5 committee. You wanted me to join the VQ magazine committee, when Maurice ius the chairperson...of couse there is no conflict of interest. You or others presidents have not raised a concern to this. The current national board IMO has the same thought process as the old board, but with more meetings to be held yearly. Promise to get rid of the magazine, as this is our major single expense might consider it. It feels like the nationa lofficers new & old are more interested in saving VQ than saving the club. How many new members, who never saw a magazine joined and stayed for the magazine. All the events I attended, we talked about the Viper and enjoyed conversations with other members. Never once did the magazine come up.

  10. #410
    The Ford GT club should be a model for this club and I had hoped that would happen when VCA imploded and this began. GT has an annual event ; a great forum where no BS is tolerated and NO MAGAZINE. Oddly, we all know what our cars look like and don’t need constant glossy reminders as well as reminders of how well they look at get togethers over crabs or burgers with redundant stories going back years. My wife recently reminded me I had 5 unopened Viper mags and I said “ toss them—it’s the same thing over and over again”. So now we have inevitably gotten to the point that the life or death of this club is almost totally related to self serving magazine.
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  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    You asked me to do they same on a FB post...join a committee. Brian, I did that for two yearsas a region president and could not change their minds. I received phone calls after a presidents meeting about why I was asking Maurice about the expenses of the NVE. The person that called me (if I recall correctly and I'm pretty sure of it) is now the chairperson for NVE5 committee. You wanted me to join the VQ magazine committee, when Maurice ius the chairperson...of couse there is no conflict of interest. You or others presidents have not raised a concern to this. The current national board IMO has the same thought process as the old board, but with more meetings to be held yearly. Promise to get rid of the magazine, as this is our major single expense might consider it. It feels like the nationa lofficers new & old are more interested in saving VQ than saving the club. How many new members, who never saw a magazine joined and stayed for the magazine. All the events I attended, we talked about the Viper and enjoyed conversations with other members. Never once did the magazine come up.
    I am literally the one that called BS on the mag committee to leadership within seconds of the initial email. That was changed immediately.

    What you an others may not be able to realize is that everything is on the table. If you are not at the table then there is no influence. Knowing what you have advocated in the past and how that can be a benefit in the future, I am on your side. We'd have a great time - heard you have a great sense of humor! (Just making that up - haven't heard either way)

    Brian
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  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerviper View Post
    The Ford GT club should be a model for this club and I had hoped that would happen when VCA imploded and this began. GT has an annual event ; a great forum where no BS is tolerated and NO MAGAZINE. Oddly, we all know what our cars look like and don’t need constant glossy reminders as well as reminders of how well they look at get togethers over crabs or burgers with redundant stories going back years. My wife recently reminded me I had 5 unopened Viper mags and I said “ toss them—it’s the same thing over and over again”. So now we have inevitably gotten to the point that the life or death of this club is almost totally related to self serving magazine.

    I'd be interesting in poking around the Ford GT club. Is this the website: https://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/

    I have talked with other mark club regional leadership and they have great insight. Any introductions would be appreciated. You have my email.

    BTW - The comment made me laugh out loud "we all know what our cars look like."

    All the best in the upcoming holiday season!

    Brian
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  13. #413
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    Help me understand something...how big is our national board? If I'm not mistaken between all of the national officers and region presidents, as well as other countries, 47 +/- people are "at the table". 47 people didn't know there was an issue. Is this correct?
    2016 ACR "ACR Steve White" by Woodhouse
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  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loud View Post
    Root cause for the situation we are in, in my opinion, is ineffective management of finances and not tracking the basics. Sure, we can learn from this and get better, not the end of the world. This went along with friendly favors taking precedence over health of club [no proof, my opinion, prove me wrong, show the finances].

    Root cause for the downfall will be lack of transparency of finances, ignoring questions from members, keeping up with the same decisions that brought us here. This is the much bigger problem. Where are the so called "leaders" who love to preach others to "lead" when their input here is most needed?

    I've heard offline comments that some folks on the forums are here for the sole purpose to destroy VOA and the posts are baseless products of active imaginations. Then, whytf aren't they here to sort it straight?

    So extremely fed up.
    I know that you and I, and others, went through this with the old club and went through great lengths to get the VOA going and be rid of this nonsense. 8 years later here we are its so disrespectful. And the "destroy VOA" line is a tactic the old club used when the shit hit the fan. Did some of this baggage worm their way into the VOA national ranks?!? It appears nobody learned a damned thing.
    Last edited by ViperTony; 11-19-2021 at 06:57 PM.
    2016 ACR "ACR Steve White" by Woodhouse
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  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperTony View Post
    Help me understand something...how big is our national board? If I'm not mistaken between all of the national officers and region presidents, as well as other countries, 47 +/- people are "at the table". 47 people didn't know there was an issue. Is this correct?
    Believe there are 41 board members. Thirty seven presidents plus four national officers. And unfortunately yes, we didnt know there was an issue. When the national isnt communicating with the regions how are we to know whats going on. This is my second term as president of my region and I received no communications from national until a few months ago when shit started hitting the fan.
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  16. #416
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlknBlu View Post
    Dump the Magazine and NVE for 2 years till we get back on our feet. Please rejoin to keep the club going. what took a few years will not be resolved overnight.

    Long live VOA

    Bruce
    I'll bite, and even put my money where my mouth is.

    If they shit can the magazine, I'll re-up right now.

    I'll even ignore the red flags like this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by 01sapphirebob View Post
    Believe there are 41 board members. Thirty seven presidents plus four national officers. And unfortunately yes, we didnt know there was an issue. When the national isnt communicating with the regions how are we to know whats going on. This is my second term as president of my region and I received no communications from national until a few months ago when shit started hitting the fan.
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  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01sapphirebob View Post
    Believe there are 41 board members. Thirty seven presidents plus four national officers. And unfortunately yes, we didnt know there was an issue. When the national isnt communicating with the regions how are we to know whats going on. This is my second term as president of my region and I received no communications from national until a few months ago when shit started hitting the fan.
    What do you all do during board meetings? Do you ask any questions? Do you ask for the financials? When I say "you" it's not directed at you personally but you all... Are board meetings essentially a sewing circle shooting the shit or is actual business discussed? I get that national isn't communicating, which is a problem in and of itself, but WTF does the "board" actually do to foster a climate of non-communication of national officers to happen in the first place?

    This is a really stupid problem to have.
    Last edited by ViperTony; 11-19-2021 at 06:51 PM.
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  18. #418
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    BE CAREFULL IF YOU QUESTION THE Current NATIONAL President .
    Don't Ask me How I know .
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  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by J TNT View Post
    BE CAREFULL IF YOU QUESTION THE Current NATIONAL President .
    Don't Ask me How I know .
    LOL ok so let's just say for a moment this allegedly happened....what did they do to you? Did they violate you in an unpleasant manner? Are you ok?
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  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperTony View Post
    Help me understand something...how big is our national board? If I'm not mistaken between all of the national officers and region presidents, as well as other countries, 47 +/- people are "at the table". 47 people didn't know there was an issue. Is this correct?
    36 Regions
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    4 plus meeting a year 2014 thru 2016

    2016 a National President proposed (1) meeting a year. It passed. And that is what it has been.
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  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperTony View Post
    LOL ok so let's just say for a moment this allegedly happened....what did they do to you? Did they violate you in an unpleasant manner? Are you ok?
    I'll discuss it in the New Year Tony when there is Less chance of reprisal !
    Let's just say it's Not Helping the New VOA Team Rebuild...........
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  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by J TNT View Post
    I'll discuss it in the New Year Tony when there is Less chance of reprisal !
    Let's just say it's Not Helping the New VOA Team Rebuild...........
    Understood. Hang in there.
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  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperenvy View Post

    What you an others may not be able to realize is that everything is on the table. If you are not at the table then there is no influence. Knowing what you have advocated in the past and how that can be a benefit in the future, I am on your side. We'd have a great time - heard you have a great sense of humor! (Just making that up - haven't heard either way)

    Brian
    Brian,

    What you don't realize is that those of us who are capable of quickly determining and addressing the obvious problems aren't going to fight with leadership and other board members that defend the problem. We're not going to wait and wade through endless organizational exercises, creation of committees, basic missteps all along the way, like Maurice on VQ, appointments to them, endless deliberations they they could have, and then wait for them to do their work and formulate some kind of a report to then present to the Board. National is putting in place barriers and obstacles to action. This organizational exercise might look impressive to some, but it's effectively an excuse for inaction that the real leaders in the room are roundly rejecting. Action to date is the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, and about as effective at plugging the gaping hole in the finances. The one leading this organization has deep experience in precisely the wrong kind of industry to create the nimble org we need now.

    The VOA needs those with the required skills to step up, and for others to get out of the way. This thread is full of this proof going back years.

    You saw how forcefully MCVO, Illinois and I fought against the 2022 renewal plan in the Sept 22nd meeting, the only ones to do that. The board should never, ever, have voted immediately that night, or to include the promise to members to receive the magazine when it should have been painfully obvious that the magazine was the largest problem! Many regions were not represented, and their vote was denied. The VOA did not respect them on a crucial issue that has now prevented the BOD from (fully and effectively) dealing with the largest single expense, the magazine.

    Well, it's the Board that is also the problem, full of those who had become complacent and part of the problem...many of whom likely aren't equipped to be part of the solution. In the real world this failed leadership and BOD would be replaced, not entrusted to dither their way in hopes of finding a solution. It's just pathetic, and those that don't have a clue just don't see it, but are critical of those who they feel aren't willing to step up. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    This whole financial crisis was completely avoidable, even during Covid, if just one person had the sense to do a budget for 2021 back in 2020. Heck, it's in your own bylaws! And not one director had the sense to ask where it was, and to vote on it. And there hadn't been a budget since 2017 apparently.

    Transparency is an illusion when there's an entire culture organized around preventing it.

    And all of this is exactly why I decided after the dreadfully disappointing meeting on Nov 14th to not participate in any further Board meetings going forward.
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  24. #424
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    Bruce-

    Why do you think I have been quiet? I know the issue like you.

    See you 1/1/22.
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  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drummerviper View Post
    Oddly, we all know what our cars look like and don’t need constant glossy reminders as well as reminders of how well they look at get togethers over crabs or burgers with redundant stories going back years. My wife recently reminded me I had 5 unopened Viper mags and I said “ toss them—it’s the same thing over and over again”. So now we have inevitably gotten to the point that the life or death of this club is almost totally related to self serving magazine.
    Well-said. I never have understood the obsession with the magazine. It looks nice, but the content is nothing to write home about and is mostly redundant.

    For the record, if the club continues down the path it looks like it's still headed on I won't be renewing.
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