Page 23 of 45 FirstFirst ... 13212223242533 ... LastLast
Results 551 to 575 of 1121
  1. #551
    Based on the data regarding the Club’s financial status disclosed in this thread, it seems appropriate that a proposed 2022 budget be emailed to all members and posted in a members only thread. Without that, there is insufficient information to make a decision on renewal. Doing so would be consistent with the exempt status of the club and the duties owed to its members by its officers and directors. Thank you for considering this request.

  2. #552
    Regional President
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2014
    Ontario
    Bruce H.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,788
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimtd View Post
    Based on the data regarding the Club’s financial status disclosed in this thread, it seems appropriate that a proposed 2022 budget be emailed to all members and posted in a members only thread. Without that, there is insufficient information to make a decision on renewal. Doing so would be consistent with the exempt status of the club and the duties owed to its members by its officers and directors. Thank you for considering this request.
    The plan is to create a detailed 2022 budget as early in January as possible and that will be based on membership renewals as of the end of the year. The region presidents are to be involved in all budget and operation decisions moving forward, and fully expect that we finally will be under the new 2022 president and his executive.

    I don't know how that budget and other plans will be communicated to membership, but communication through region presidents has obviously been another failure point. I would certainly advocate strongly for a direct email from national to members, but it should also be available to non-members as that is by far the largest pool of increased membership after Jan 1st.
    VOA 2022 Communication Team Member


    2014 SRT Black TA, 76,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 22,000 kms.

  3. #553
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    1,159
    Bruce

    I never have understood why the National officers and the finance review team do not post everything financial on the forum or email it. We are a non-profit not a competitive company and are basically being supported by all tax paying citizens of the US. No need to hide our P & L or Balance Sheet as well as our annual budget. The only reason I can think of is they don’t want people knowing who is getting paid and how much.

  4. #554
    In this case it’s probably not much nor illegal, but as they say follow the money. Likely just embarrassing.
    17 GTS-R, (sold) 92 Viper, (Lutz VIN 00002) , 06 Heritage Ford GT, 19 Ferrari 488 Pista,
    20 Lamborghini Aventador SVJ 18 Ford GT (sold); 19 Ferrari 812 Superfast

  5. #555
    Regional President
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2014
    Ontario
    Bruce H.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,788
    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    Bruce

    I never have understood why the National officers and the finance review team do not post everything financial on the forum or email it. We are a non-profit not a competitive company and are basically being supported by all tax paying citizens of the US. No need to hide our P & L or Balance Sheet as well as our annual budget. The only reason I can think of is they don’t want people knowing who is getting paid and how much.
    Budgets weren't prepared since 2017 we're told, so none to post, and I won't speculate as to why adequate financial reporting wasn't done.
    VOA 2022 Communication Team Member


    2014 SRT Black TA, 76,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 22,000 kms.

  6. #556
    Thank you for your response. It is not at all unusual for an exempt organization or a regular business to formulate a budget subject to certain contingencies. In view of the financial difficulties of the club, it is only logical for the leadership to provide such a budget to help instill confidence that past alleged errors will not be repeated. Thus, if there is not going to be a budget provided now, I will not be deciding whether or not to renew until I have seen and reviewed one. Sorry but that seems appropriate under the circumstances where there seems to have been significant mismanagement.

  7. #557
    Regional President
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2014
    Ontario
    Bruce H.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,788
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimtd View Post
    Thank you for your response. It is not at all unusual for an exempt organization or a regular business to formulate a budget subject to certain contingencies. In view of the financial difficulties of the club, it is only logical for the leadership to provide such a budget to help instill confidence that past alleged errors will not be repeated. Thus, if there is not going to be a budget provided now, I will not be deciding whether or not to renew until I have seen and reviewed one. Sorry but that seems appropriate under the circumstances where there seems to have been significant mismanagement.
    The decision to prepare an annual budgets in not discretionary, it is mandated in the VOA's bylaws, but was not followed under multiple presidents, treasurer's and under the governance of 37 region presidents.
    VOA 2022 Communication Team Member


    2014 SRT Black TA, 76,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 22,000 kms.

  8. #558
    As stated before, I was the treasurer from 2014 to mid 2018, when I transferred all the information to Joe. Let me repeat myself with the following facts:

    1. We had a budget every year for the first 4 years.
    2. We made over 50K in those four years.
    3. There were 2 NVE's during this time, the first lost around $2k and the second made over $60k.
    4. I don't understand why people are stuck on the fact that dues can't pay for all expenses of the club. The club is made up of a lot of pieces, as long as when the year is over we haven't lost anything, isn't that the point.
    5. I used the accrual basis for these years for the very reason the club is in trouble right now. I can't even imagine how the club is over $200k in debt right now. Did the last two NVE's perform that badly? That is the only expense I can see to cause this big of a deficit.
    6. Yes the magazine was expensive, and it was discussed a lot. But for the first four years it was manageable. Unless something changed drastically over the next four years I can't see this as the biggest problem. I do believe it probably contributed some, because ad revenue was going down every year, and I'm sure it went down drastically after the car stopped production.
    7. We paid for 3 Presidents meeting during my time, all of them cost less than $10k, if they spent $21k recently for one, then yes they got out of hand big time. But because the books are on the cash basis, that could be two meeting cost (see the problem).
    8. If Joe isn't a CPA then I agree his website is very misleading, I checked on that before agreeing with the new Treasurer.
    9. Brian stated that the problems started in 2017, this is not true and as long as I keep reading bad things about 2014-17, I will come on hear and defend myself.

    If anybody has any questions about the first four years, I would be happy to answer them if I can.

  9. #559
    Regional President
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2014
    Ontario
    Bruce H.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,788
    Brad, do you recall if there was a budget prepared for 2018 before you left? I thought there was another treasurer after yourself and before Joe took over. So Joe is the one that changed from the accrual to cash method of accounting...a decision that affected the usefulness of the P&L to all leadership and the membership.
    VOA 2022 Communication Team Member


    2014 SRT Black TA, 76,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 22,000 kms.

  10. #560
    I just read the email “VOA club update“ sent out at 3:57 PM. It states that “A new budget was also built for the next club year to avoid continued deficits.” The budget was not attached to the email. Since it exists, could those who sent out that email please provide it in a supplemental email and/or make it available on this thread. Thank you in advance for doing so.

    One other note. There is no mention of the effect the cessation of the manufacture of the Viper had on the club. Perhaps that was inadvertent but it certainly had a significant effect as it does in any car club when the car, which is the subject of the club’s existence, stops being made. The VOA has been a legacy car club since that occurred and that would most likely be the main cause why certain revenue streams declined. Remember vendors, other than parts vendors who are needed even more as the years accumulate from the cessation of production, also move on when there’s no new car to buy goodies for or about.

  11. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    Brad, do you recall if there was a budget prepared for 2018 before you left? I thought there was another treasurer after yourself and before Joe took over. So Joe is the one that changed from the accrual to cash method of accounting...a decision that affected the usefulness of the P&L to all leadership and the membership.
    My term ended after I finished the 2017 year end, I completed the year sometime around May or June of 2018, so wasn’t my responsibility for 2018 to make a budget. Yes Joe took over from me, but he wouldn’t take over until after tax season, he said he was too busy, so I continued at least keeping the books reconciled until the transfer could be made. He must have just used the cash basis after he took over as of course that is the easy way of doing things.

  12. #562
    Hi Brad. Question. I realize you were not the one who did it but are you suggesting that the method of accounting could be changed from accrual to cash without filing a form 3115 with the Internal Revenue Service? Or, was one filed? Also, I asked about the connection between the change in the method of accounting and whether it had any impact on the way the form 990 was completed; and, whether what was supplied to obtain the loan had any material distortion caused by same. I do not know whether you’ve had an opportunity to see any of that data but, if you have had an opportunity to review it, in your opinion, is there a problem lurking there? And, to make it clear, I am not suggesting that if there was a distortion, that it was intentional.

  13. #563
    Enthusiast Steve M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    4,408
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimtd View Post
    I just read the email “VOA club update“ sent out at 3:57 PM. It states that “A new budget was also built for the next club year to avoid continued deficits.” The budget was not attached to the email. Since it exists, could those who sent out that email please provide it in a supplemental email and/or make it available on this thread. Thank you in advance for doing so.
    Same request.

    I'll also add that I appreciated the tone in that email...it was a step in the right direction IMO.
    2008 SRT-10 Coupe - Venom Red Metallic w/ White Stripes - 1/4 Mile Passes (YouTube)
    High Flow Cats | Gen 5 Intake Man. | UDP | HPT | 3.55s | MCS | DSS Axles | Nth Moto Clutch | 11.027 @ 130.06 (Vid), 1.78 60' (+1,622 ft DA, w/ 3.55s & Hoosier Drag Radials)

  14. #564
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    1,159
    While the letter is a GREAT start it glosses over the cause of the club’s financial situation. The blame COVID for declining membership is not true. COVID was not around until Feb/March 2020. VOA membership started its decline in 2017. As discussed in the last board meeting members renewing for the following new year are mostly renewed by Feb/Mar of the new membership year. The majority of members for 2020 would have alreadt renewed their membership if they were going to. So blaming Covid for a decline in the 2020 membership is a weak excuse for our financial decline. Covid had a larger affect on the economy in 2021 than in 2020 as we are going to have 12 months vs 9 months, but our membership increased in 2021 more than it did last year. So don't think Covid was the reason for the drop in membership for 2020 or you would assume that there would also be a drop in 2021.

    Quote from the email “In addition, the large amount of cancelations and refunds for NVE4 due to COVID 19 cost the club $100K. This reduction of income put us on a course to continue to deplete remaining resources, culminating in the shortfall this year.”

    Why did giving members back their NVE registration fees cost the club an extra $100k in revenue loss. Didn’t they just return the money back to the members….

    Although, they did not attached a budget for 2022, they do know there is going to be over a $40k deficit in the 2022 budget. This was not mentioned but should have.

    They added Maurice and Alex names to the bottom of the email thinking it’s going to help but in all actuality, they are the root cause of our current financial situation. As founder members of the club, they did not change the course the club was going, but was advising the club to stay the course.

    Maurice, if anyone should have seen that the advertising for VQ had dropped in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. But did he notify anyone and say we need to make some adjustments…no he just kept on taking the money.

    What would be nice is to say, we will put out a yearly budget no later than the end of February each year and base the current year’s budget based on membership renewals through January. This may mean that we will have to reduce the VQ magazine by one or two issues, as this is our highest continued expense.

    Quit blaming Covid for our club’s financial situation, identify and focus on the real reasons so you can keep them from happening again.
    Last edited by CarolinaViper; 11-28-2021 at 07:43 PM.

  15. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimtd View Post
    Hi Brad. Question. I realize you were not the one who did it but are you suggesting that the method of accounting could be changed from accrual to cash without filing a form 3115 with the Internal Revenue Service? Or, was one filed? Also, I asked about the connection between the change in the method of accounting and whether it had any impact on the way the form 990 was completed; and, whether what was supplied to obtain the loan had any material distortion caused by same. I do not know whether you’ve had an opportunity to see any of that data but, if you have had an opportunity to review it, in your opinion, is there a problem lurking there? And, to make it clear, I am not suggesting that if there was a distortion, that it was intentional.
    I don’t know but I’m 99% sure a 3115 wasn’t filled. An IRS rule is only as good as the people overseeing them, they probably don’t have a mechanism to catch things like this. The 990 was definitely impacted by this change, but as was stated earlier, the biggest distortion would have been in 2018. I don’t know what kind of loan this was, but if it was a EIDL loan created by the COVID pandemic then they were so easy to get, it wouldn’t matter what the financials said.

  16. #566
    Regional President
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2014
    Ontario
    Bruce H.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,788
    You guys are sharp and so perceptive...and you've been desperately needed on the Board. Please volunteer if you're so inclined.
    VOA 2022 Communication Team Member


    2014 SRT Black TA, 76,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 22,000 kms.

  17. #567
    VOA Member
    since 2013
    Central North Florida
    ViperSRT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Rochester Hills, MI & Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    You guys are sharp and so perceptive...and you've been desperately needed on the Board. Please volunteer if you're so inclined.
    When the national sends out an email touting that TWO CPAs participated in the financial assessment, how are there any open questions at all? Those two plus the treasurer (who can’t be included in CPAs after it was determined he isn’t one) should clearly be capable of financial analysis and direction.

    Us mere mortals in the club haven’t seen any new data since October, from national or regional, and as such cannot do anything more than speculate. As I recall nominations to the national board are limited to regional board members, so asking for volunteers would appear to be fruitless. However it was noted that you asked without the chest thumping and denigration approach others have used.

    Last comment regarding the letter from national. How are we to take it that the signatures include many regions, but not all regions? Were they not in agreement, opposed or just to be ignored? Here are the signees:
    Michael Kuchavik, President elect
    Beth Sewell, President
    Wes Frasard, VP elect
    Ed Massena, Secretary
    Joe Boscia, Treasurer
    Brian Willey, Capital Vipers
    Jim Johnson, CO/UT/MT/WY
    Rob Buckman, Illinois
    Cheryl Dlouhy, Crossroads of America
    Chris Cszenko, Georgia
    Frank Palazzo, St. Louis
    Kurt Wadsworth, WV/PA
    Bob Bierman, Western Reserve
    Matt Altomare, New York/Connecticut
    Richard Sewell, Houston
    Wayne Rauh, North Texas
    Bill Hunter, New England
    Nick Somerville, Central North Florida
    Wesley Angelotti, South Florida
    Alex Ristanovic, Cofounder of VOA
    Maurice Liang, Cofounder of VOA

  18. #568
    Thank you for your feedback Brad. From what you wrote, it is possible that the distortion from the change in accounting could’ve rolled forward. Fyi. There is a very active program to review the Covid “easy loans” that were obtained. There have already been successful compliance actions. I am not saying that that compliance effort would apply to the loan application utilized here since the facts, at least on this site, have not been disclosed. I am only mentioning that such a program exists. It might be useful if an accountant familiar with the applicable rules reviewed what was submitted to obtain the loan to see whether it requires any amendment.

  19. #569
    The Form 990s filed after your tenure should also be reviewed to see if they need to be amended.

  20. #570
    Regional President
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2014
    Ontario
    Bruce H.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,788
    ViperSRT, you're right, the accountants continue their review of the financials.

    What I meant by volunteering is this...there are various committees being set up to research, find and propose solutions on everything from identifying cost savings to increasing membership and revenues from various sources. I believe that any club member can volunteer for those committees, but only if someone wanted to.

    I didn't attend the last Board meeting where this would have been discussed due to a dispute with national, so I really shouldn't comment on the letter. But I can say that I was not consulted, asked to approve, nor would I have put my name to that letter. I do however fully support the efforts to rebuild the VOA, but know some of the names on that list have posed a significant problem to getting there.
    VOA 2022 Communication Team Member


    2014 SRT Black TA, 76,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 22,000 kms.

  21. #571
    VOA Member
    since 2013
    Central North Florida
    ViperSRT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Rochester Hills, MI & Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce H. View Post
    ViperSRT, you're right, the accountants continue their review of the financials.

    What I meant by volunteering is this...there are various committees being set up to research, find and propose solutions on everything from identifying cost savings to increasing membership and revenues from various sources. I believe that any club member can volunteer for those committees, but only if someone wanted to.

    I didn't attend the last Board meeting where this would have been discussed due to a dispute with national, so I really shouldn't comment on the letter. But I can say that I was not consulted, asked to approve, nor would I have put my name to that letter. I do however fully support the efforts to rebuild the VOA, but know some of the names on that list have posed a significant problem to getting there.
    Thanks Bruce. If VOA is looking for volunteers for specific committees it hasn’t been communicated to members via our region. I have seen a few committee comments here, but most in a backhanded way to tell those with questions to go join something. This site is the wrong way to seek volunteers as many members do not visit it, or read every post.

    It was notable my region was not a co-signer of the letter, for whatever that is worth.

  22. #572
    Regional President
    VOA Mamba Member
    since 2014
    Ontario
    Bruce H.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,788
    Quote Originally Posted by ViperSRT View Post

    It was notable my region was not a co-signer of the letter, for whatever that is worth.
    Mike Sutton is a huge asset on the VOA Board, and is a leader with a lot of integrity. We need to clone him a bunch of times! It's a shame MCVO members may not realize how hard he works at this. Let him know if you want to get involved and he may know of a committee position suited to you.
    VOA 2022 Communication Team Member


    2014 SRT Black TA, 76,000 kms. Last of the 159 built. Thanks to Ralph and Team Viper for an incredible Viper!
    2019 Porsche 911 Turbo S, 22,000 kms.

  23. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by ViperSRT View Post
    It was notable my region was not a co-signer of the letter, for whatever that is worth.
    it is notable that my region IS a co-signer and he outright ignored members questions about national and has NOT communicated anything to membership other than begging us to renew.
    Dave
    98 Viper GTS

  24. #574
    Regional Membership Director
    VOA Member
    since 2013
    Ontario
    J TNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ontario,MCVO,PA,OH
    Posts
    2,535
    Quote Originally Posted by Cost4133 View Post
    it is notable that my region IS a co-signer and he outright ignored members questions about national and has NOT communicated anything to membership other than begging us to renew.
    14 out of 37 Presidents signed off on it , less than 50 percent .......
    And we still wait for clarity on the Financials , so trust us on blind faith.............
    Charter Member ,

  25. #575
    Enthusiast GTS Dean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Braunfels, TX
    Posts
    1,434
    So barely over 1/3 of the regional reps - far from even a simple majority - are attempting to officially set the policies of VOA?
    96 GTS. Viper Days Modified Class. Fresh motor 10-2020!


 
Page 23 of 45 FirstFirst ... 13212223242533 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •