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  1. #651
    Wesley Frasard
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperenvy View Post
    I am really looking forward to retirement.
    If you retire you will not be able to buy that CS Viper to complete the collection... Just raise the roof on that garage 6 feet and install a 4-post lift.
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  2. #652
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetalonguy View Post
    I ALWAYS appreciate insight and especially those who have been around a long time. I am also a big proponent of those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. These are very important things to determine where we came from and where we are going. I always take a history lesson from anyone that has predated me.

    As a CPA (sadly not an attorney :-)), I'm more confined to looking at where we are and where do we need to go to make the club sustainable. I'm not looking to assign blame or win an argument, as that does not lead me to the path I'm on. End goal is to make the club completely sustainable despite windfalls.

    I mentioned a few days ago, that I'm not sure completely trashing the magazine is the best way to go (at least at this time). My gut tells me that there are more silent members out there that do appreciate the magazine than what we know. Looking at current Q4 renewals, we're at around 75% mamba vs 25% standard and that seems to be above our highest of around 70%/30% circa 2017. Historically, VOA was ~ 65/35 that I can see. Does this mean members want the magazine and will pay more for it? I don't know. However, I wouldn't blindly kill off the magazine until I knew it wouldn't affect a greater amount of membership. We have 2022 to dig into this further and make a more informed decision for 2023.

    As I've said, it's all out on the table for consideration. Oz is not pulling the strings.

    Respectfully,
    Matt Altomare
    Matt,

    The problem with going forward first without finding out how we got here may lead us to the same place in a couple out years. Unfortunately, finding out how we ended up currently may point some members of the club in a bad light.

    Which is okay, this way our bylaws and ways of doing business can be changed.

    You mention a higher percentage of members are renewing at the mamba rate. Do you mind sharing the numbers. Are we talking 15-30 members who have renewed or 500-600 members. A big difference when using percentages. And do all of them know what extreme financial actions the club had to do to pay bills for 2021 and that we are still in the negative for 2021.

    Jeff Barnes

  3. #653
    Matthew Altomare
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    Matt,

    The problem with going forward first without finding out how we got here may lead us to the same place in a couple out years. Unfortunately, finding out how we ended up currently may point some members of the club in a bad light.

    Which is okay, this way our bylaws and ways of doing business can be changed.

    You mention a higher percentage of members are renewing at the mamba rate. Do you mind sharing the numbers. Are we talking 15-30 members who have renewed or 500-600 members. A big difference when using percentages. And do all of them know what extreme financial actions the club had to do to pay bills for 2021 and that we are still in the negative for 2021.

    Jeff Barnes
    Hi Jeff,

    Completely get it...and I'm not saying don't look at the past. We have to see how we were operating to figure out what wasn't working. But what I'm saying, looking to point fingers, is not going to help us. Developing a plan forward will, knowing of what we learned from the past.

    From what I'm seeing it looks like ~145 members have renewed as standard and ~430 have renewed as mamba. That can be off a couple of members depending on timing a couple of days, but is running ~75/25.

    In non-NVE (purchasing tickets for next year) years, December is usually the biggest spike in renewals, with around ~30+% (total annual %) renewing in DEC and then ~10+% (total annual %) in January .

    I think most members are aware of the situation at local and national levels, but can't comment on how many of them actually read emails regarding them. I hate to over promise and under deliver, but I think the club will end up on the positive end for 2022. That will involve a lot of work from the committees next year, which will ultimately help define our budget for 2023.
    Matt-
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  4. #654
    Matthew Altomare
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    And thanks Jeff for the page count!

    I just pulled the first magazine from the box that I took out of my work office in March 2020, and consequently VQ22 was on the top.

    The Page count says 72, but there is no count for front & inner or the back & outer
    Matt-
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  5. #655
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
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    Matt

    Thanks for the numbers. I think a bigger tell will be at how many members will renew. Right now according to your figures only 1/3 of our 1750 +/-members have renewed. From what I understood in the board meeting is that the majority of those that are going to renew do it by the end of December. Could be that the 430 mamba members who have renewed don’t care one way or another or maybe they are unaware of the financial status. In the last board meeting I remember one of the region president said they were not aware how bad the situation was until just recently. Only time will tell. Lastly, I agree pointing fingers at anyone is not the right way to go. Unfortunately, how this club has been run over the last several years it’s hard not to identify the people at fault when decisions were not made by the entire board.
    Last edited by CarolinaViper; 12-04-2021 at 08:15 AM.

  6. #656
    Kurt Balhorn
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    To help fill in the blanks...
    2015 Vol #2, Issue #1 was 68 pages, not counting the front or back cover.
    2019 VQ22, had 72 pages, not counting the front and back cover.
    I do not have a copy of Vol 1, Issue 2.
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  7. #657
    Wesley Frasard
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    Taking Jeff's, Matt's, and Kurt's inputs and adding a few more details, this is what we have so far.

    VQM 2.jpg
    Last edited by viperguy69; 12-05-2021 at 12:55 PM.
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  8. #658
    Wesley Frasard
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad00GTS View Post
    You can't look at these numbers because according to the top of the report they are on the cash basis, so they are worthless for comparison purposes. The Magazine was always what delayed me from filing the 990, the fourth edition of the magazine for each year wasn't usually finished until May or June of the following year, so I had to wait for bills to come in before I closed the year. The 2014 numbers above are probably for only 3 editions.
    Brad,

    Thank you for the level of detail within your records (2013-2017). It's a lot to go through and a lot to process but it's pretty easy to follow transactions from penny to penny, and day by day. Just looking to try and find receipts for the bigger transaction items to cross reference to the ledger and then need to match up the rollups a little more and these should be off to the races here soon.

    Thanks.
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  9. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by viperguy69 View Post
    Brad,

    Thank you for the level of detail within your records (2013-2017). It's a lot to go through and a lot to process but it's pretty easy to follow transactions from penny to penny, and day by day. Just looking to try and find receipts for the bigger transaction items to cross reference to the ledger and then need to match up the rollups a little more and these should be off to the races here soon.

    Thanks.
    Wes,
    I'd just like to get some clarification on who is actually the persons answering questions and posting on this thread.

    viperguy69 is Wes....are you the incoming Vice President of the 2022-2023 VOA? And if so, why are you going through the books to try and make sense of where the monies went and were spent? Isn't this the treasurers job?

    thetalonguy is Matt....appears to be the NY/CT regional president. And thankfully Matt answered the question of what our new member count is quickly without a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Much appreciated. But why isn't either the current president Beth Sewell or the new president Michael Kuchavik answering this national membership question?

    With all these financial questions being asked (and some of them are highly concerning) why isn't the treasurer answering these questions? The treasurer during this accounting debacle was Joe Boscia and has been elected to continue through the 2022-2023 VOA national term.....if this is correct, he should be most intimate with where the financials are.

    WHY ON EARTH IS THE TREASURER NOT REPLYING TO ALL THESE QUICKBOOK AND ACCOUNTING QUESTIONS?

    Was Joe Boscia not the person doing the books during this time of incompetent book keeping? Is the VOA going to continue using Joe Boscia as national treasurer?...and if so WHY???
    I just want to make sure that I'm on the right track that Joe Boscia was the one keeping the books in Quickbooks and not somebody else.
    PLEASE CONFIRM WHO WAS DOING THE ACCOUNTING AND BOOK KEEPING!!

    How did the VOA pay its vendors and pay it's expenses? I'm not an accounting specialist but I imagine it was either by VOA check, ACH, VOA Credit Card, wire transfer or green cash.

    Does the VOA have a VOA credit card that it uses to pay bills and expenses? Is there more than one credit card issued and how many credit cards have been issued and to who? The beauty of credit cards is the payment history is only a click away on your banking app so they should be pretty easy to reconcile or at least see what name payments were made to.

    Other than green cash, everything is traceable and leaves an audit trail. Did the VOA pay any expenses in green cash that were not considered minor petty expense items?

    How many 1099's did the VOA send out and to whom? Specifically for the years 2018-2021. Again, it is literally a click away on Quickbooks. If the answer is we can't find any 1099's or none were sent out, then you'd better get the life rafts ready because our VOA ship is going the way of the Titanic.

  10. #660
    Wesley Frasard
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackAire View Post
    Wes,
    I'd just like to get some clarification on who is actually the persons answering questions and posting on this thread.

    viperguy69 is Wes....are you the incoming Vice President of the 2022-2023 VOA? And if so, why are you going through the books to try and make sense of where the monies went and were spent? Isn't this the treasurers job?

    thetalonguy is Matt....appears to be the NY/CT regional president. And thankfully Matt answered the question of what our new member count is quickly without a bunch of mumbo jumbo. Much appreciated. But why isn't either the current president Beth Sewell or the new president Michael Kuchavik answering this national membership question?

    With all these financial questions being asked (and some of them are highly concerning) why isn't the treasurer answering these questions? The treasurer during this accounting debacle was Joe Boscia and has been elected to continue through the 2022-2023 VOA national term.....if this is correct, he should be most intimate with where the financials are.

    WHY ON EARTH IS THE TREASURER NOT REPLYING TO ALL THESE QUICKBOOK AND ACCOUNTING QUESTIONS?

    Was Joe Boscia not the person doing the books during this time of incompetent book keeping? Is the VOA going to continue using Joe Boscia as national treasurer?...and if so WHY???
    I just want to make sure that I'm on the right track that Joe Boscia was the one keeping the books in Quickbooks and not somebody else.
    PLEASE CONFIRM WHO WAS DOING THE ACCOUNTING AND BOOK KEEPING!!

    How did the VOA pay its vendors and pay it's expenses? I'm not an accounting specialist but I imagine it was either by VOA check, ACH, VOA Credit Card, wire transfer or green cash.

    Does the VOA have a VOA credit card that it uses to pay bills and expenses? Is there more than one credit card issued and how many credit cards have been issued and to who? The beauty of credit cards is the payment history is only a click away on your banking app so they should be pretty easy to reconcile or at least see what name payments were made to.

    Other than green cash, everything is traceable and leaves an audit trail. Did the VOA pay any expenses in green cash that were not considered minor petty expense items?

    How many 1099's did the VOA send out and to whom? Specifically for the years 2018-2021. Again, it is literally a click away on Quickbooks. If the answer is we can't find any 1099's or none were sent out, then you'd better get the life rafts ready because our VOA ship is going the way of the Titanic.
    Viperguy69 = Wes

    Elected VOA VP for 2022-2023


    Provided is a bunch of mumbo jumbo.... as I infer from your comment that I provide with my responses...


    I was asked and assigned to the task before being elected as the VP. I decide to run to help get the VOA back in line with financial planning efforts like Fiscal Planning, Budget Development, and Program Execution - what I do as a Senior Budget Analyst and why I was asked to join the financial team.

    The task was assigned to the team to answer a bunch of questions like, in a nutshell, was there any nefarious activities? Can you follow the transactions that were taking place and track the incoming and outgoing cashflow for the VOA year-over-year? Can you assist with developing a financial plan that would allow the club to stop operating at a deficit and begin paying back the $175K loan? And, can you summarize the information for membership so that everyone could see the activities for themselves (transparency) to be assured that no nefarious activities took place?

    Where it is Joe's job to have awareness and control of the financial books it is also a great idea to have a fiscal review conducted annually to ensure that the books are being maintained in accordance with standard accounting practices. I am a treasurer of my Regional Clubs finances; I was the one who demanded that we perform a review of our club's finances to reassure our membership that we are trusted agents and good stewards of our club's money. The VOA has never had anyone, that me know of, conduct an internal review of the books. It was also obvious there were many issues with assumptions made when the club was first formed back in 2013. You have to start at the beginning to have a true understanding of where you are and why the club is where it is.

    To your next question, does the VOA have credit cards? Yes. We recommended that only one credit card be on file and all others be closed. To our knowledge Joe is now the only person with has a credit card. Also, based on our recommendation moving forward, Joe cannot use the credit card without first asking the BoD's permission unless it is a budget line item, currently there is no budget, that has already been approved. And yes, we are looking through those receipts to match them with expenses on Joe's expense reports. Joe is doing all the accounting and book keeping in Quickbooks.

    To Joe's credit he ran for Treasurer because no one else stepped up to take his place. He is also a personal and only signature on the SBA loan, think about that one for a second. We are looking for a CPA to be the Deputy Treasurer, which will be an appointed position are you interested? To that first point, if nobody ran for treasurer, we would really be up a creek without a paddle. So, Joe and the Financial Committee will oversee the club's finances, meet monthly, report monthly to the BoD and then publish the monthly report to membership for the VOA's financial situation. The Financial Committee will be breaking down and analyzing every expense item on the ledger to see where we can eliminate an expense to save money. For 2022 Joe's job is pay the bills, once approved, and manage the bills, once they become known, using the accrual method of accounting.

    Then onto you next question - Green Cash - the club uses checks, wire transfers, and credit cards mostly to do most every expenditure. I have not seen any cash transactions in the records, but we are still looking.

    As for 1099 for 2018-2021, that is a Joe question that we have not yet dug into as we have been very busy with other stuff to get done. However, looking at the books back to 2013 - 2021, I would assume that we should have had as many as two people with 1099's and now one person who should be getting a 1099. However, that depends on how they are being accounting for payments with respect to Editing and Design for the Magazine - despite the fact we have no contract, it should be documented as wages paid to an independent contractor. If there was no 1099-NEC's provided from 2013-2021 then I can say when we close the books this year on 2021 and proceed into 2022 with a different look in that regard.
    Last edited by viperguy69; 12-04-2021 at 02:32 PM.
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  11. #661
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
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    Wes
    I don’t think members are assuming criminal activity was conducted at any time. What I want to see is how we went into debt so fast without anyone realizing it. Both errors of omission and commission were done. Mostly with the magazine. Maurice and National VOA officers knew or should have known the advertising income declined drastically for the last three years. Cash vs accrual wouldn’t have mattered.

    What I’m wondering with the magazine is: were national officers looking the other way when it came to the magazine because of Maurice’s position with the two clubs. I’m sure this isn’t his only revenue stream of income... or I may be wrong.

    Then there is the mismanagement of the NVEs which you guys seem to have under control going forward. I still can not believe the club paid an additional $10K using the Covid loan to do this. I know the financial review team had nothing to do with it. This type of disregard with funds is what I and most people are upset with.

    Jeff Barnes

  12. #662
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viperguy69 View Post

    To Joe's credit he ran for Treasurer because no one else stepped up to take his place. He is also a personal and only signature on the SBA loan, think about that one for a second.
    So what you are saying is that Joe is financially responsible to repay the COVID loan it the club defaults? From what i understand on the SBA website concerning these loans is that his signature only auhtorized the club to be the receiver. All COVID loans that were $200,000.00 and above required a guarantor. Wondering if this is why the club stopped at $175K, since the club need way more than the $175 to get out of debt.
    Last edited by CarolinaViper; 12-04-2021 at 04:16 PM.

  13. #663
    Wesley Frasard
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    So what you are saying is that Joe is financially responsible to repay the COVID loan it the club defaults? From what i understand on the SBA website concerning these loans is that his signature only auhtorized the club to be the receiver. All COVID loans that were $200,000.00 and above required a guarantor. Wondering if this is why the club stopped at $175K, since the club need way more than the $175 to get out of debt.
    That is a question that is still open ended and still remains unanswered to my satisfaction. I want to see everything in writing, otherwise it's just speculation.
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  14. #664
    Wesley Frasard
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    Wes
    I don’t think members are assuming criminal activity was conducted at any time. What I want to see is how we went into debt so fast without anyone realizing it. Both errors of omission and commission were done. Mostly with the magazine. Maurice and National VOA officers knew or should have known the advertising income declined drastically for the last three years. Cash vs accrual wouldn’t have mattered.

    What I’m wondering with the magazine is: were national officers looking the other way when it came to the magazine because of Maurice’s position with the two clubs. I’m sure this isn’t his only revenue stream of income... or I may be wrong.

    Then there is the mismanagement of the NVEs which you guys seem to have under control going forward. I still can not believe the club paid an additional $10K using the Covid loan to do this. I know the financial review team had nothing to do with it. This type of disregard with funds is what I and most people are upset with.

    Jeff Barnes
    Jeff, it was the most important aspect we had when we started the review. The first thing we had to try and determine, as quick as possible, if there were any potential suspicious or questionable activities. If there was then that would have ended our initial review and we would have had to look into the next steps for a forensic financial analysis.

    As far as I see it, because there was money, and everyone liked the magazine, the increases in the cost of the magazine were not closely scrutinized. For me, it is going to get a heck lot more detailed in how we are going to track just the 2022 billings.

    Continuing with the magazine you have to go back to the very beginning. This is how I understand the fact of the Magazine to be. In the beginning Maurice, for the first two years, provided editing and all the photography for free. After that initial period, there were solicitations made from a few vendors to take over the publication of the magazine. However, with an initial budget at around $75-$100K and limited subscriptions to just VOA members there was no interest by any commercial companies to take over, to include bids for other magazine and people associated with the former club's magazine - all declined the offer to bid. So, Maurice agreed to $5K per quarterly for editing services, advertising of his stuff within the magazine, and reimbursement for travel expenses for magazine articles. I have no written acknowledgement of these facts or of this decision by the VOA BoD. But, the magazine continued to be created by Maurice and design was performed by another person. At some point the person performing the design work was not happy with the fee, $5K/quarterly, and they walked away. However, because there was some artistic design wrapped up in how the magazine created and printed, we had to go through a redesign to not infringe upon their artistic copyright.... again, what I understand the facts to be. However, I have not read this in any legal document or challenge from the parties involved. Now, that we are out of money, and everyone is looking for the smoking gun, we are looking for answers of what is sinking the VOA.

    I can tell you that there is lots of areas that need to be cleaned up and costs cut. The magazine is one of many areas and yes it looks like one of our biggest discretionary pots, but some will argue that it's an entitlement that they pay for and want. So, an issue that will survive in 2022 but will get a committee to work from A-Z and then a survey to ask what members want and what they are willing to pay for in the way of a magazine to include a possible separate subscription service - assuming Maurice would agree to run the Magazine as its own business under his purview without any VOA support.


    So, onto the 2022 Magazines, what will they be and what will it include?

    I can tell you that the first two should look something like this, still needs a discussion with the leadership team and the BoD:

    1. E-tron Magazine for all VOA Members
    2. 48-page Maximum page printed version for Mamba members
    3. Front inside cover or back inside cover will provide the following details:

    ..VOA 29/30 - whatever number it ends up being... March printing and early April delivery
    ... a) VOA membership Oct 2021 - Feb 2022
    ... b) VOA Mamba Membership Total vs Regular Membership Totals
    ... c) VOA Jan-Feb 2022 Financial Reports
    ... d) Cost to produce this magazine
    .......1) Design Cost
    .......2) Editing Cost
    .......3) Travel Cost
    ...........a) Location 1 - must be pre-approved by BoD for reimbursement
    ...........b) Location 2 - must be pre-approved by BoD for reimbursement
    .......4) E-hosting Platform Costs
    .......5) Total Cost of Printing the Magazines
    .......6) Total Magazines Printed X,XXX - by: The Printing Place - Offset Printing Method - Glue Binding Type - 100lb glossy paper (??)
    .......7) Total Cost of Postage
    ..........a) US + number sent
    ..........b) Canada + number sent
    ..........c) UK/Europe + number sent
    ..........d) Japan + number sent
    .......8) Cost to put extra into stock
    .......9) Total Cost of e-Tron Magazine (line 1+ line 2+ line 3+ line 4 = total cost)
    .....10) Total Cost of e-Tron Magazine to user (line 9 / Membership = total cost/person)
    .....11) Total Cost of hardcopy (line 5 + Line 7 = total cost)
    .....12) Total Cost of hardcopy to each user (line 11 / Membership = total cost/person)

    ..VOA 30/31 whatever number it ends up being... May printing and early June delivery
    ... a) VOA membership Oct 2021 - May 2022
    ... b) VOA Mamba Membership Total vs Regular Membership Totals
    ... c) VOA Mar-Apr 2022 Financial Reports
    ... d) Cost to produce this magazine
    .......1) Design Cost
    .......2) Editing Cost
    .......3) Travel Cost
    ...........a) Location 1 - must be pre-approved by BoD for reimbursement
    ...........b) Location 2 - must be pre-approved by BoD for reimbursement
    .......4) E-hosting Platform Costs
    .......5) Total Cost of Printing the Magazines
    .......6) Total Magazines Printed X,XXX - by: Wilson Printing Company - Digital Printing Method - Staple Binding Type - 70lb standard paper (??)
    .......7) Total Cost of Postage
    ..........a) US + number sent
    ..........b) Canada + number sent
    ..........c) UK/Europe + number sent
    ..........d) Japan + number sent
    .......8) Cost to put extra into stock
    .......9) Total Cost of e-Tron Magazine (line 1+ line 2+ line 3+ line 4 = total cost)
    .....10) Total Cost of e-Tron Magazine to user (line 9 / Membership = total cost/person)
    .....11) Total Cost of hardcopy (line 5 + Line 7 = total cost)
    .....12) Total Cost of hardcopy to each user (line 11 / Membership = total cost/person)

    Survey.... Quality vs Cost
    Last edited by viperguy69; 12-04-2021 at 06:18 PM.
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  15. #665
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viperguy69 View Post
    That is a question that is still open ended and still remains unanswered to my satisfaction. I want to see everything in writing, otherwise it's just speculation.
    How you wrote your response it sounds like he is responsible and that he has taken the risk, but if you look at the SBA website regarding the loans what is required for different loan amounts you will see that he's not. So saying that he is the only "signature" on the loan is very misleading...and if you were not sure then should have caveated that part of the response.

  16. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by viperguy69 View Post
    Viperguy69 = Wes

    Elected VOA VP for 2022-2023


    Provided is a bunch of mumbo jumbo.... as I infer from your comment that I provide with my responses...


    I was asked and assigned to the task before being elected as the VP. I decide to run to help get the VOA back in line with financial planning efforts like Fiscal Planning, Budget Development, and Program Execution - what I do as a Senior Budget Analyst and why I was asked to join the financial team.

    The task was assigned to the team to answer a bunch of questions like, in a nutshell, was there any nefarious activities? Can you follow the transactions that were taking place and track the incoming and outgoing cashflow for the VOA year-over-year? Can you assist with developing a financial plan that would allow the club to stop operating at a deficit and begin paying back the $175K loan? And, can you summarize the information for membership so that everyone could see the activities for themselves (transparency) to be assured that no nefarious activities took place?

    Where it is Joe's job to have awareness and control of the financial books it is also a great idea to have a fiscal review conducted annually to ensure that the books are being maintained in accordance with standard accounting practices. I am a treasurer of my Regional Clubs finances; I was the one who demanded that we perform a review of our club's finances to reassure our membership that we are trusted agents and good stewards of our club's money. The VOA has never had anyone, that me know of, conduct an internal review of the books. It was also obvious there were many issues with assumptions made when the club was first formed back in 2013. You have to start at the beginning to have a true understanding of where you are and why the club is where it is.

    To your next question, does the VOA have credit cards? Yes. We recommended that only one credit card be on file and all others be closed. To our knowledge Joe is now the only person with has a credit card. Also, based on our recommendation moving forward, Joe cannot use the credit card without first asking the BoD's permission unless it is a budget line item, currently there is no budget, that has already been approved. And yes, we are looking through those receipts to match them with expenses on Joe's expense reports. Joe is doing all the accounting and book keeping in Quickbooks.

    To Joe's credit he ran for Treasurer because no one else stepped up to take his place. He is also a personal and only signature on the SBA loan, think about that one for a second. We are looking for a CPA to be the Deputy Treasurer, which will be an appointed position are you interested? To that first point, if nobody ran for treasurer, we would really be up a creek without a paddle. So, Joe and the Financial Committee will oversee the club's finances, meet monthly, report monthly to the BoD and then publish the monthly report to membership for the VOA's financial situation. The Financial Committee will be breaking down and analyzing every expense item on the ledger to see where we can eliminate an expense to save money. For 2022 Joe's job is pay the bills, once approved, and manage the bills, once they become known, using the accrual method of accounting.

    Then onto you next question - Green Cash - the club uses checks, wire transfers, and credit cards mostly to do most every expenditure. I have not seen any cash transactions in the records, but we are still looking.

    As for 1099 for 2018-2021, that is a Joe question that we have not yet dug into as we have been very busy with other stuff to get done. However, looking at the books back to 2013 - 2021, I would assume that we should have had as many as two people with 1099's and now one person who should be getting a 1099. However, that depends on how they are being accounting for payments with respect to Editing and Design for the Magazine - despite the fact we have no contract, it should be documented as wages paid to an independent contractor. If there was no 1099-NEC's provided from 2013-2021 then I can say when we close the books this year on 2021 and proceed into 2022 with a different look in that regard.
    Wes, thanks for answering the questions and I hope you can pull it off...you sound like you care and are trying to work through this.

    I understand you need a treasurer....but if the last 4 years had inexcusable bookkeeping, why continue with Joe, just because he was willing to stay in the position? The VOA is a fairly small business in the scheme of things. Is the accounting time required a pain in the ass if you have a fulltime job, have family, have a life outside the VOA, yes. The treasury position is probably the worst time sucker in the VOA. It is a job that needs to be consistently done or things will never balance out.

    Keeping the same people/system in place that has failed for the last 4 years is like going back to same doctor after he amputated the wrong leg so he can amputate the correct one.....#commonsense

    My suggestion is to hire a bookkeeping service to do all the inputting of credits and debits that can be sent to the board every month ON TIME for review. I mean honestly, how many checks to vendors is the VOA cutting a month...20-40? Once the bookkeeping falls behind and reports are 2, 3 or 5 months late (maybe more in this case)...it is hard for a non CPA type BOD to figure out exactly what is happening. I figure it would cost $1500-$2000 per month at the most.....maybe less. Use this service to get the books in order and consistent and then maybe somebody with the time within the club can take it over after 12-18 months.

    At this point, you can't afford not to get a bookkeeping service NOW. Even as you're going through the old skeletons, as least the bookkeeping will be correct from this point forward.

  17. #667
    Wesley Frasard
    VOA National Vice President
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    How you wrote your response it sounds like he is responsible and that he has taken the risk, but if you look at the SBA website regarding the loans what is required for different loan amounts you will see that he's not. So saying that he is the only "signature" on the loan is very misleading...and if you were not sure then should have caveated that part of the response.
    Again, I see what it says but I would like someone with a legal background to tell me for sure if he is or is not responsible. If he is not, then I would like to know what happens if the club defaults on the loan? What legal course of action can be taken against who in the event of a default? I am sure there is some fine print somewhere that covers all the what ifs on a non-profit default on the loan. What is written is the simplified text, I am sure.

    From the SBA EIDL website... https://www.sba.gov/document/support...-covid-19-eidl

    Personal Guaranty:

    $0 - $200,000: No personal guaranty required

    $200,001 - $2,000,000: Except for nonprofit organizations and loans to ESOPs, all loans
    require a full personal guaranty from:

    • All individuals or entities owning 20% or more of the applicant business;
    • For sole proprietorships, the proprietor;
    • For independent contractors, the contractor;
    • For General Partnerships, all general partners;
    • For Limited Partnerships, all general partners and any limited partner who owns 20
    percent or more of the partnership;
    • For Limited Liability Entities, the Managing Member and any member who owns 20
    percent or more of the entity;
    • For Corporations, any individual or legal entity who owns 20 percent or more of the
    voting stock.

    If no single owner owns 20% or more, then at least one individual or entity must provide
    a full guaranty.

    A personal guaranty is an agreement that an individual makes to assume responsibility
    for payment of a loan in the event that the applicant business (“borrower”) fails to repay
    the loan in accordance with the loan agreement or note. The person who signs the
    guaranty is the guarantor. The personal guaranty remains in place until the loan is paid
    in full. (See SOP 50 52 for information on substitution of guarantor. Send substitution
    requests to PDC.AccountsCollateralReview@sba.gov.)

    Individuals required to sign personal guaranties must sign an Unconditional Personal
    Guaranty, which is provided as part of the loan closing documents through the
    application portal. Unconditional Personal Guaranties must be signed by all required
    parties and returned to the SBA before the COVID EIDL loan funds will be disbursed.
    Personal guaranties are not a substitute for any collateral required by SBA. If SBA
    requires a personal guaranty, refusal to provide the guaranty is a basis for declining an
    application.

    No personal guaranty is required for nonprofit organizations or Employee Stock
    Ownership Plans (ESOPs).
    Last edited by viperguy69; 12-04-2021 at 10:38 PM.
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  18. #668
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    After knowing Wes for four years and knowing he is one of those guys who:
    1. Is at his best with 3 to 3.5 hour of sleep
    2. Dealt with 1, 2, & 3 star generals
    3. Built his Viper when everyone said it wasn’t possible
    4. Like any Marine, loves a fight and challenge

    Good luck to all of you. You have no idea the Tazmanian Devil your dealing with. Hint - don’t piss him off - trust me…
    Brian
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  19. #669
    Matthew Altomare
    VOA National Deputy Treasurer
    Regional President
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrackAire View Post
    Wes, thanks for answering the questions and I hope you can pull it off...you sound like you care and are trying to work through this.

    I understand you need a treasurer....but if the last 4 years had inexcusable bookkeeping, why continue with Joe, just because he was willing to stay in the position? The VOA is a fairly small business in the scheme of things. Is the accounting time required a pain in the ass if you have a fulltime job, have family, have a life outside the VOA, yes. The treasury position is probably the worst time sucker in the VOA. It is a job that needs to be consistently done or things will never balance out.

    Keeping the same people/system in place that has failed for the last 4 years is like going back to same doctor after he amputated the wrong leg so he can amputate the correct one.....#commonsense

    My suggestion is to hire a bookkeeping service to do all the inputting of credits and debits that can be sent to the board every month ON TIME for review. I mean honestly, how many checks to vendors is the VOA cutting a month...20-40? Once the bookkeeping falls behind and reports are 2, 3 or 5 months late (maybe more in this case)...it is hard for a non CPA type BOD to figure out exactly what is happening. I figure it would cost $1500-$2000 per month at the most.....maybe less. Use this service to get the books in order and consistent and then maybe somebody with the time within the club can take it over after 12-18 months.

    At this point, you can't afford not to get a bookkeeping service NOW. Even as you're going through the old skeletons, as least the bookkeeping will be correct from this point forward.
    Hi TrackAire,

    I apologize, I probably should've said something more introductory. I am on the Finance Committee. I am a CPA (licensed in NY) and I am a Controller of multiple entities under a very large, multi-national public company (responsible for billions of revenue per year). Prior to that, I was an independent, external Financial Statement auditor with main focus of Not-for-profits and Higher Education clients.

    Many people in the club, that I've conversed with, know my background. When I was asked if I could help, I whole heartily-agreed. Personally, this club was here to aid me in my time of need when I joined (don't won't revisit those personally tough times), and now I'm here to reciprocate.

    I have talked to Joe and the leadership and I have offered my voluntary services to help with the Accounting / proper accrual basis of things. That is my forte and I can do that in my sleep (which I do tend to do on a nightly basis anyway).



    I don't want to see the club spend more money on another service, that I can do easily as a voluntary service myself.
    Matt-
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  20. #670
    VOA Mamba Member
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    Matt-

    Thank you for standing up and waving with both hands to volunteer.

    You and the others that have shoulder this load along with the na sayers have my respect and support. Soon they will be volunteering or sitting on their hands. Its never wise to fight the tide. With you and the others, the tide is rising.

    In the last couple years that we have known each other, did not realize you are an accounting sniper ninja.

    Thank you again buddy!!
    Brian
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  21. #671
    Supporting Vendor JonB ~ PartsRack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperenvy View Post
    After knowing Wes for four years and knowing he is one of those guys who:
    1. Is at his best with 3 to 3.5 hour of sleep
    2. Dealt with 1, 2, & 3 star generals
    3. Built his Viper when everyone said it wasn’t possible
    4. Like any Marine, loves a fight and challenge

    Good luck to all of you. You have no idea the Tazmanian Devil your dealing with. Hint - don’t piss him off - trust me…
    Quite the powerful reference.

    How fortunate your club is to have both the VOA National Prez and VOA National Vice as local members.
    Last edited by JonB ~ PartsRack; 12-05-2021 at 12:03 AM.
    Jon "JonB" Brobst ~~~~:<~ JonB@PartsRack.com


  22. #672
    VOA Mamba Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB ~ PartsRack View Post
    Quite the powerful reference!

    How fortunate your club is to have both the VOA National Prez and VOA National Vice as local members.
    Just National VP and the guy that voted for you as Capital Vipers Honorary Founding Member #49.

    Enjoy the weekend - got some parts to order Sunday night from you.
    Brian
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  23. #673
    Enthusiast CarolinaViper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viperenvy View Post
    After knowing Wes for four years and knowing he is one of those guys who:
    1. Is at his best with 3 to 3.5 hour of sleep
    2. Dealt with 1, 2, & 3 star generals
    3. Built his Viper when everyone said it wasn’t possible
    4. Like any Marine, loves a fight and challenge

    Good luck to all of you. You have no idea the Tazmanian Devil your dealing with. Hint - don’t piss him off - trust me…
    Wes doesn’t need you to fight his battles even though on FB you told me to give him a break. Wes is smart enough to read the comments on this forum and choose what is being advised and incorporating them into his new policy. He has already taken numerous ideas from the forum that were not mentioned in the region presidents meeting and acted on them.

    Reply to your 1-4

    1. I am glad he gets by with little sleep as I need my beauty sleep and can get a little grumpy at times without it.
    2. I provided personal protection to the SECDEF, SECAF, and numerous 4 Star Generals in high threat countries but it didn’t help me identify the clubs problems or make sensible recommendations - didn’t provide protection to 1,2 and 3 star generals though.
    3. That’s awesome - I really mean it.
    4. Yes indeed.....

    Brian if you can not tell my reply to you is true but condescending and like your comments above kind of useless to solve what’s going on with the club.
    Last edited by CarolinaViper; 12-05-2021 at 01:01 AM.

  24. #674
    VOA Mamba Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaViper View Post
    Wes doesn’t need you to fight his battles even though on FB you told me to give him a break. Wes is smart enough to read the comments on this forum and choose what is being advised and incorporating them into his new policy. He has already taken numerous ideas from the forum that were not mentioned in the region presidents meeting and acted on them.

    Reply to your 1-4

    1. I am glad he gets by with little sleep as I need my beauty sleep and can get a little grumpy at times without it.
    2. I provided personal protection to the SECDEF, SECAF, and numerous 4 Star Generals in high threat countries but it didn’t help me identify the clubs problems or make sensible recommendations - didn’t provide protection to 1,2 and 3 star generals though.
    3. That’s awesome - I really mean it.
    4. Yes indeed.....

    Brian it you can not tell my reply to you is true but condescending and like your comments above kind of useless to solve what’s going on with the club.
    I couldn’t fight a sick fly little lone help Wes.

    Plus didn’t you volunteer to help? Always welcome a helping hand, always. Good to have your 18 hour eyeballs. They’ll help Wes in ways I can’t even contemplate.
    Last edited by Viperenvy; 12-05-2021 at 06:41 AM.
    Brian
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  25. #675
    B3DAE790-CD9B-4E80-B9FF-4E795D442734.jpegB3DAE790-CD9B-4E80-B9FF-4E795D442734.jpeg
    Quote Originally Posted by Viperenvy View Post
    After knowing Wes for four years and knowing he is one of those guys who:
    1. Is at his best with 3 to 3.5 hour of sleep
    2. Dealt with 1, 2, & 3 star generals
    3. Built his Viper when everyone said it wasn’t possible
    4. Like any Marine, loves a fight and


    Good luck to all of you. You have no idea the Tazmanian Devil your dealing with. Hint - don’t piss him off - trust me…
    And the most helpful post goes to……
    17 GTS-R, (sold) 92 Viper, (Lutz VIN 00002) , 06 Heritage Ford GT, 19 Ferrari 488 Pista,
    20 Lamborghini Aventador SVJ 18 Ford GT (sold); 19 Ferrari 812 Superfast


 
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