VOA National Officers has assembled a team to conduct a review of the VOA finances

[TrackAire]

2.5 CPA's.....Ok, that made me spit out my coffee

[ACRucrazy]

Hahahahahaha

[CarolinaViper]

On what basis are you making this statement?

Loud,

This may be in part of what Jon is referring too:

A quick review of 2016 -2021, shows that Maurice has had $12,600.00 worth of advertising in the VQ magazine to sell his products. And apparently, he may have his travelled paid for (unknown how many times) in the past, because as of 2022, he will need the BoD approval for reimbursement. In the 2017Profit & Loss Statement published in the VQ magazine there is an item listed as travel expense for $9K.

The financial team needs to analysis every payment to Maurice as a founding member of the club. Wes said supposedly (no documentation to support this he said), Maurice did the VQ for the first couple of years at no cost, other than free advertising in the VQ for his products.

Jon may be correct in assuming the Maurice received money for making the video and I am assuming that the moderator “Plum Crazy” is “SHAKING his HEAD” in agreement with Jon's post. As his head shaking quote is as transparent as the club's finances.

Again, I will mention that Maurice is only doing a 48 page vs a 68 page VQ magazine which is a 30 percent reduction in pages but still receiving the $40K he got for the larger magazine.

For clear transparency, the new BoD need to pass new by-laws stating that any member of the VOA who receives $600.00 or more in any type of compensation will be identified in the yearly Profit & Loss Statement or somewhere. This would include any business of a member or if the members is self-employed. Transparency in the future is the key to everything.

[Bruce H.]

I hope everyone won't lose sight of why we are all here in the first place, and where we all want to be a couple of years from now. We want and need a Viper community, both locally and nationally.

Even if you don't feel you can support the VOA at this point, supporting your local clubs is important to maintain the connections, activities and events we've all enjoyed locally. Keeping your region strong and your president engaged in efforts to rebuild the VOA are good things for us all. The VOA will undergo a major transformation in 2022, and it will emerge a lot stronger, and in a form that will be sustainable for the future.

Lessons have been learned from this post-production era, even the most stubborn will have to accept them, and fresh thinking will replace that which no longer works. I'm returning to the VOA Board next week and hope to find a new spirit of cooperation and determination to make the tough decision that can no longer be denied or delayed. We know where the existing VOA went off the rails, and it's now time to envision and build a new one.

[13COBRA]

I hope everyone won't lose sight of why we are all here in the first place, and where we all want to be a couple of years from now. We want and need a Viper community, both locally and nationally.

Even if you don't feel you can support the VOA at this point, supporting your local clubs is important to maintain the connections, activities and events we've all enjoyed locally. Keeping your region strong and your president engaged in efforts to rebuild the VOA are good things for us all. The VOA will undergo a major transformation in 2022, and it will emerge a lot stronger, and in a form that will be sustainable for the future.

Lessons have been learned from this post-production era, even the most stubborn will have to accept them, and fresh thinking will replace that which no longer works. I'm returning to the VOA Board next week and hope to find a new spirit of cooperation and determination to make the tough decision that can no longer be denied or delayed. We know where the existing VOA went off the rails, and it's now time to envision and build a new one.

I applaud your positivity, Bruce.

[CarolinaViper]

I hope everyone won't lose sight of why we are all here in the first place, and where we all want to be a couple of years from now. We want and need a Viper community, both locally and nationally.

Even if you don't feel you can support the VOA at this point, supporting your local clubs is important to maintain the connections, activities and events we've all enjoyed locally. Keeping your region strong and your president engaged in efforts to rebuild the VOA are good things for us all. The VOA will undergo a major transformation in 2022, and it will emerge a lot stronger, and in a form that will be sustainable for the future.

Lessons have been learned from this post-production era, even the most stubborn will have to accept them, and fresh thinking will replace that which no longer works. I'm returning to the VOA Board next week and hope to find a new spirit of cooperation and determination to make the tough decision that can no longer be denied or delayed. We know where the existing VOA went off the rails, and it's now time to envision and build a new one.

Bruce,

I am glad to hear that as I have watched/heard your comments doing the BoD meeting you have a lot to assist the club in going foward.

One may wonder why, I and others make the comments on the forum that some may say are negative. It’s to bring to light the past mistakes out in the open and offer ideas to correct and improve the club. Others like myself have already made numerous recommendations that the financial review board as instituted in their 2022/2023 year. I will not expound on them, as I do not want to take credit for them that is not why we have made our comments. I will and I hope others will continue with their comments until we can see a real change in the club.

Again true transparency is the key to success. I think Wes and the review team are on the right step…time will tell. And when it does, I and many others will rejoin the club.

[Bruce H.]

Bruce,

I am glad to hear that as I have watched/heard your comments doing the BoD meeting you have a lot to assist the club in going foward.

One may wonder why, I and others make the comments on the forum that some may say are negative. It’s to bring to light the past mistakes out in the open and offer ideas to correct and improve the club. Others like myself have already made numerous recommendations that the financial review board as instituted in their 2022/2023 year. I will not expound on them, as I do not want to take credit for them that is not why we have made our comments. I will and I hope others will continue with their comments until we can see a real change in the club.

Again true transparency is the key to success. I think Wes and the review team are on the right step…time will tell. And when it does, I and many others will rejoin the club.

Understood, and thank you for your efforts!

I feel that the criticisms offered in this thread have been mostly brutally accurate, remarkably insightful, and they will surely be helpful. This is what leadership needs to hear (and they are), and this has proven to be the forum for those with the needed input to express it. I'm also glad to see the determination to hold the VOA's leadership, executive and Board presidents, accountable, and that is also needed.

It's easy to see through the criticisms that there is an incredibly strong desire to finally get this right, and that will help drive our VOA Board's determination to do that. I just worry about some region's membership being fractured over this, and I hope they can keep everyone together even if some don't feel they can support the VOA until they see real change. I know that will come, and I hope there will still be a strong regional membership out there ready to embrace the new VOA.

[Unlimtd]

Loud,

This may be in part of what Jon is referring too:

A quick review of 2016 -2021, shows that Maurice has had $12,600.00 worth of advertising in the VQ magazine to sell his products. And apparently, he may have his travelled paid for (unknown how many times) in the past, because as of 2022, he will need the BoD approval for reimbursement. In the 2017Profit & Loss Statement published in the VQ magazine there is an item listed as travel expense for $9K.

The financial team needs to analysis every payment to Maurice as a founding member of the club. Wes said supposedly (no documentation to support this he said), Maurice did the VQ for the first couple of years at no cost, other than free advertising in the VQ for his products.

Jon may be correct in assuming the Maurice received money for making the video and I am assuming that the moderator “Plum Crazy” is “SHAKING his HEAD” in agreement with Jon's post. As his head shaking quote is as transparent as the club's finances.

Again, I will mention that Maurice is only doing a 48 page vs a 68 page VQ magazine which is a 30 percent reduction in pages but still receiving the $40K he got for the larger magazine.

For clear transparency, the new BoD need to pass new by-laws stating that any member of the VOA who receives $600.00 or more in any type of compensation will be identified in the yearly Profit & Loss Statement or somewhere. This would include any business of a member or if the members is self-employed. Transparency in the future is the key to everything.

Barter income is income. The fair market value of an Ad or Ads received without paying for same is income to the person or person who rendered a service who directly ir indirectly received the Ads. It would have been proper to issue some sort of Form 1099 to the service provider reporting same. Was that done? If not, why not? It is one thing to provide “free Ads” in return for independent contractor services. It is quite another thing to not issue a Form 1099 and possibly aid and abet the non reporting of the income assuming the independent contractor did not report it. Let’s hope it was reported.

As far as JonB’s other point concerning unrelated trade or business income within the context of a Subsection 501(c)(7) exempt organization in the context of a raffle, he has a point. There is a great deal of information available from the IRS by googling same. There are specific rules on how such a raffle must be conducted and who can participate in the raffle. A basic rule appears to be that only members of the organization can participate in the raffle and only volunteers can run the raffle. Since there are active CPAs in the leadership of the VOA, I assume that they can carefully review the IRS materials and make sure that the raffle is conducted properly in such a manner as to lawfully minimize any tax.

I strongly recommend the CPAs involved at the leadership level concentrate on making sure that all of the arcane rules pertaining to a 501(c)(7) exempt organization are strictly adhered to and that they should review the forms 990 filed for 2018 and thereafter to determine whether they need to be amended. They also should review the form 1099 issue mentioned above.

[commandomatt]

Why is there no input/comments/responses from most of the current BOD ? The fact that they do not get involved at all in this thread just makes it feel like they are completely disconnected.

[Loud]

Why is there no input/comments/responses from most of the current BOD ? The fact that they do not get involved at all in this thread just makes it feel like they are completely disconnected.

It should really be the National Leaders. I see most everything the BOD could share has been shared in this thread.

[viperguy69]

Just to be clear here, we are not the ones raffling off the Viper. That car is being raffled off by https://www.dreamgiveaway.com/dg/viper. They make donations to eight different charities when you buy a ticket. They use organizations to help them draw in people to purchase their tickets. The organization that helps them to draw in their patrons usually gets 25% of the moneys donated to the raffle in return. We are not getting 25% of every donation, just the donations that use our code to buy tickets, from my understanding. They will be selling tickets on this Viper from December 1, 2021, and ends on October 10, 2022. The VOA does not own this vehicle nor does it have a say on anything about this vehicle. If you don't want the Viper then go for the Corvette, in 24 days you could be the happy owner!

Their CONSUMER DISCLOSURE: You have not yet won. No purchase or payment of any kind is necessary to enter or win a Dream Giveaway drawing. 2022 Viper Dream Giveaway commences on December 1, 2021, and ends on October 10, 2022. One (1) Grand-Prize will be awarded consisting of one 2009 Dodge Viper ACR plus $25,000.00 to be applied toward the winner's IRS withholding requirement for federal income taxes (approximate current retail value of the Grand-Prize is $170,600.00). Odds of winning - one (1) divided by total number of valid entries received. Sponsor: New Beginning Children's Homes, Inc., PO Box 529, Centerton, AR 72719.

[13COBRA]

Just to be clear here, we are not the ones raffling off the Viper. That car is being raffled off by https://www.dreamgiveaway.com/dg/viper. They make donations to eight different charities when you buy a ticket. They use organizations to help them draw in people to purchase their tickets. The organization that helps them to draw in their patrons usually gets 25% of the moneys donated to the raffle in return. We are not getting 25% of every donation, just the donations that use our code to buy tickets, from my understanding. They will be selling tickets on this Viper from December 1, 2021, and ends on October 10, 2022. The VOA does not own this vehicle nor does it have a say on anything about this vehicle. If you don't want the Viper then go for the Corvette, in 24 days you could be the happy owner!

Their CONSUMER DISCLOSURE: You have not yet won. No purchase or payment of any kind is necessary to enter or win a Dream Giveaway drawing. 2022 Viper Dream Giveaway commences on December 1, 2021, and ends on October 10, 2022. One (1) Grand-Prize will be awarded consisting of one 2009 Dodge Viper ACR plus $25,000.00 to be applied toward the winner's IRS withholding requirement for federal income taxes (approximate current retail value of the Grand-Prize is $170,600.00). Odds of winning - one (1) divided by total number of valid entries received. Sponsor: New Beginning Children's Homes, Inc., PO Box 529, Centerton, AR 72719.

Love the passive aggressiveness.

Also, if no purchase or payment is necessary to enter or win, where can I sign up for 10,000 tickets for free?

[SRT_BluByU]

https://www.dreamgiveaway.com/dg/viper/official-rules

[13COBRA]

https://www.dreamgiveaway.com/dg/viper/official-rules

Ah, so for the price of a stamp you get an entry.

So, $4600 gets me 10,000 entries...haha


EDIT: I'm behind on price of stamps... $5800 gets you 10,000 entries.

[SRT_BluByU]

Ah, so for the price of a stamp you get an entry.

So, $4600 gets me 10,000 entries...haha


EDIT: I'm behind on price of stamps... $5800 gets you 10,000 entries.

need two stamps... one send envelope and one return... (one each per entry I think it says).

[13COBRA]

need to stamps... one send envelope and one return... (one each per entry I think it says).

$439.20 buys you 20,000 envelopes from Sam's Club. Stamps for $5800. So for $6,239.20 and a lot of licking, you get 10,000 entries.

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

.....Just to be clear here, we are not the ones raffling off the Viper. That car is being raffled off by https://www.dreamgiveaway.com/dg/viper. They make donations to eight different charities when you buy a ticket. They use organizations to help them draw in people to purchase their tickets. The organization that helps them to draw in their patrons usually gets 25% of the moneys donated to the raffle in return. We are not getting 25% of every donation, just the donations that use our code to buy tickets, from my understanding. .....

Aligning with sleeze by taking 25% of the VOA-coded sleezy ticket sales, means NO charity will get that 25%. And it means the VOA is now in the part-time-sleeze raffle business. The VOA certainly wont be giving the money to any charity, despite the the VOA false declaration to the IRS that VOA has "Charitable Activities."

The 'no purchase necessary' is boilerplate Attorney General lingo to tacitly allow sleezy raffles into 49 States. [But NOT here in Oregon.]

Not Good Enough: "VOA is not doing the raffle" ...

VOA is just PROMOTING IT, and then siphoning a 25% commission on VOA tickets away from charities. If VOA was still Manufacturer-Supported, the MFR would strenuously object for ethical reasons.

HISSSTORY: Illegal / questionable raffles (and raffle-doorprizes) is one of the reasons the MFR no longer endorses or supports this club. Learn From Hissstory, or.....create yet another VCA-VOA parallel

[Fatboy 18]

30 Pages so far, Just checking......Pay more to receive less? Buy some raffle tickets to bail out Mr Lang and the Club....Carry on

[JonB ~ PartsRack]

....30 Pages so far, Just checking......Pay more to receive less? Carry on

Dont forget 200 enlightening posts on 8 pages in original CLOSED thread:

https://driveviper.com/forums/thread...ges-are-Coming

[Fatboy 18]

Maybe something's lost here going right back to basics, I'm not a clever guy and have always kept my money safe rather than gamble, but Surely it makes sense for a car club to first rely on Membership subscriptions alone and then as funds increase start looking for additional funds through sponsors "to help" run the Club or Business, "Not rely on that business" Seems to me the business plan was a disaster waiting to happen from the start and I had put my trust in those that stood up to form the new club thinking they would guide us away from the mess that was the VCA and the Marshal mess. As as regional officer did I take my eye off the ball, simple answer is yes, Why? Because I trusted the Board as had done the Previous UK Prez and I was not aware of the true financials, Come end of 2021 Shit hits the fan!

[CarolinaViper]

Fatboy

You are not the only one who trusted Maurice, Alex and Beth to lead the club in a honest and transparent way. Maurice and Alex should have known from prior experience with the VCA that not showing what Maurice was getting paid for with the VQ magazine was wrong.

Apparently, he may have received free advertising in the magazine and received travel pay to take pictures. Beth may have continued these practices as well. Beth stated she had no idea that Joe (VOA Treasurer) changed our accounting system...she’s the president why didn’t she know.

Then, we have the financial team who is going to save the day. They speak out about the “Cash” accounting system as being terrible. But what do they do, they use that system to reconcile 7 years of tax filings. State it would take to much time to fix three years to the accrual system. It would better to have one year of cash reporting transactions transferred to the more accurate accrual system to see if that year had issues. But no they chose the easier route and less accurate. Brads first four filings were accurate so why convert them to the admittedly flawed “Cash” system. Yes...we know to save time over accuracy.

The financial team speaks of changes and has taken a lot of suggestions....but when it comes to Maurice and the Magazine it’s a different story. It’s always we need to relook at that or no comment at all. From the beginning the magazine was to be saved over the good of the club.

To settle the questions of misuse of funds every dollar spent on the magazine needs to be made available to members. This includes, money paid, travel in support of magazine, free advertising and if there was any paid incentives to bring in more advertising for the magazine.

Wondering if the difference between the finance review teams figures which is way less than those in the tax filings which have between $125k - $140k includes travel expenses for the magazine.

There must have been some type of travel expenses paid as the finance team said future travel would be approved by the BoD.

So don’t blame yourself...even the financial review team is letting the VQ slide.

[Loud]

So don’t blame yourself...even the financial review team is letting the VQ slide.

They have been advised to, per some of their comments in prior posts.

[SNKEBIT]

W - T - F !!???!!!??!!???

[viperguy69]

Fatboy

You are not the only one who trusted Maurice, Alex and Beth to lead the club in a honest and transparent way. Maurice and Alex should have known from prior experience with the VCA that not showing what Maurice was getting paid for with the VQ magazine was wrong.

Apparently, he may have received free advertising in the magazine and received travel pay to take pictures. Beth may have continued these practices as well. Beth stated she had no idea that Joe (VOA Treasurer) changed our accounting system...she’s the president why didn’t she know.

Then, we have the financial team who is going to save the day. They speak out about the “Cash” accounting system as being terrible. But what do they do, they use that system to reconcile 7 years of tax filings. State it would take to much time to fix three years to the accrual system. It would better to have one year of cash reporting transactions transferred to the more accurate accrual system to see if that year had issues. But no they chose the easier route and less accurate. Brads first four filings were accurate so why convert them to the admittedly flawed “Cash” system. Yes...we know to save time over accuracy.

The financial team speaks of changes and has taken a lot of suggestions....but when it comes to Maurice and the Magazine it’s a different story. It’s always we need to relook at that or no comment at all. From the beginning the magazine was to be saved over the good of the club.

To settle the questions of misuse of funds every dollar spent on the magazine needs to be made available to members. This includes, money paid, travel in support of magazine, free advertising and if there was any paid incentives to bring in more advertising for the magazine.

Wondering if the difference between the finance review teams figures which is way less than those in the tax filings which have between $125k - $140k includes travel expenses for the magazine.

There must have been some type of travel expenses paid as the finance team said future travel would be approved by the BoD.

So don’t blame yourself...even the financial review team is letting the VQ slide.

I never said we are using the cash method of accounting to provide the baseline across the timeline. What I said is here is one view of looking at cash basis vs cash basis because it was a quick down and dirty way of looking at what was going on. We will provide all the books, to the best of our ability, under the accrual method of accounting starting with 2021, so I am not sure where you get the notion that we are not.

And I am just about done with all the records for VQ magazine which will be provided once I figure out how I want to tell the story using accrual or cash for just the Magazine aspect of accounting - because there is a huge difference in how you provide the information that makes sense to most as opposed to a few. However, the bigger report will account for everything as accrual, to include the magazine, under this method which will show the smoothed out VQ costs in one year over another year because how the cash was spent and should have been accounted for. So, if I use the accrual method to get the books in order, then the VQ magazine should fall into the right year for expenses and not the year of execution under cash which accounts for the liquidation when it happens.

However, I have editing, design, trips, printing, shipping, replacements, and other finances that are accounted for under the magazine just about wrapped up. There are still questions about receipts, dates, number of pages, and a few other key aspects I want to understand because I am sure those questions will be asked as soon as I publish. So, let's not infer what I am or what I am not going to do. Just ask the question and I will tell you what the intent is is it is in the realm of the possible.

[CarolinaViper]

I never said we are using the cash method of accounting to provide the baseline across the timeline. What I said is here is one view of looking at cash basis vs cash basis because it was a quick down and dirty way of looking at what was going on.....

And I am just about done with all the records for VQ magazine which will be provided once I figure out how I want to tell the story using accrual or cash for just the Magazine aspect of accounting - because there is a huge difference in how you provide the information that makes sense to most as opposed to a few. However, the bigger report will account for everything as accrual, to include the magazine, under this method which will show the smoothed out VQ costs in one year over another year because how the cash was spent and should have been accounted for. So, if I use the accrual method to get the books in order, then the VQ magazine should fall into the right year for expenses and not the year of executi.

Wes,

I never said you were not going to use the accrual accounting procedure for 2022 and forward, what I said was you used the “Cash Method” instead to look back at items. See below where you mention you were using the “Cash Basis” to look at items.

As I forgot how to copy and paste quotes from earlier threads, I have to do it the old fashion way.
In thread #616, you provided a spreadsheet titles “LOOKING AT THE EARLY YEARS USING A CASH BASIS"

Then in post 618, Brad the previous VOA Treasurer said: “ You can't look at these numbers because according to the top of the report they are on the CASH BASIS, so they are worthless for comparison purposes. The Magazine was always what delayed me from filing the 990, the fourth edition of the magazine for each year wasn't usually finished until May or June of the following year, so I had to wait for bills to come in before I closed the year. The 2014 numbers above are probably for only 3 editions.”

Then in Post 619 you said: “Lol, I was setting you up and got you... That is one of the issues with CASH BASIS ACCOUNTING, the billings for VQM got rolled up based on how and when the bill was paid - when we did this drill it looked strange to us as well. It also did not align all the $$ exactly in the right lines for accountability - so more lines have to be scrutinized.”

Then in Post 621 you said: Converting from CASH to accrual is going to take a lot more time. So, I wanted to see if I could provide a quick an easy representation that was CASH BASIS from CY2013 - CY2021 to get the numbers out there for everyone's viewing pleasure. However, I am not fully satisfied with the results, just yet.

If you were crunched for time, maybe the finance team should have started with the last year the club reported to the IRS using the accrual method as a baseline. As everyone is in agreement this offers the best view of the finances That would have been in 2017. The Profit and Loss statement provided in the VQ magazine for 2017 showed the club with a deficient of -$9,068.00. The next year, 2018 is when we went to the “Cash Basis”. Seems to me, that’s when you should have started the review and only focus on the 3 or 4 major expenses: VQ magazine, NVEs, Membership packages, and maybe the Online store. You could have explained it to the members were are looking at the major expenses and nothing else…because we want to have it done within 60 days.