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  1. #1
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    Brake Fluid for Track use

    I know that brake fluid choice can almost be religious. Some use Castrol SRF while others use Motul 600 or 660. I've been wanting to try Motul 700 but until recently was unable to find it in the USA. Amazon now carries it and maybe even some of our sponsoring vendors do. Motul 700 has a higher dry boiling point than Motul 600 or 660 but is much cheaper than Castrol.

    So has anyone used Motul 700 on the track? If so, what are your opinions of it?
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  2. #2
    Enthusiast 13COBRA's Avatar
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    Interested. I've always ran 660.
    Nick Anderson

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  3. #3
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Just run SRF. It's not that much more expensive when you factor in the size of the container. $60 for 1L vs $25 for 0.5L 660.

    The big thing about SRF is it has a very high WET boiling point (518 degrees). Nothing else comes close. All the Motuls are 400 degrees. It technically isn't as high dry boiling point (606 vs 617 for RBF660 and 637 for RBF700, but that's not really much a a delt and wet is what you should really consider anyway. Quite frankly, if you're getting your fluid anywhere near 600 degrees, you've probably got a failing component of some sort. The other big thing is SRF doesn't attract water nearly as much as other fluids, so it stays closer to its dry boiling point.

    There's a reason SRF is everyone's go to. I've never heard of anyone preferring motul, except for cost purposes.

    I didn't even bleed my brakes in my C7GS before events. I just flushed the fluid once every 8-10 track days (I'm not even sure I needed to do that). I absolutely needed to at least flush with RBF600 as it definitely got wet after a track day or two. It worked out to be cheaper to run SRF and flush it once very 10 track days than to bleed with RBF every time. Plus, my time.

    You shouldn't really even get to its wet boiling point, anyway. And heck, its "fully wet" boiling point is only about 75 degrees below RBF600's dry (and it will never be 100% dry), lol.


    https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-flu...ow=1&SF=4&ST=2
    Last edited by Lawineer; 12-04-2022 at 08:06 PM.
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  4. #4
    Enthusiast 13COBRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    Just run SRF. It's not that much more expensive when you factor in the size of the container. $60 for 1L vs $25 for 0.5L 660.

    The big thing about SRF is it has a very high WET boiling point (518 degrees). Nothing else comes close. All the Motuls are 400 degrees. It technically isn't as high dry boiling point (606 vs 617 for RBF660 and 637 for RBF700, but that's not really much a a delt and wet is what you should really consider anyway. Quite frankly, if you're getting your fluid anywhere near 600 degrees, you've probably got a failing component of some sort. The other big thing is SRF doesn't attract water nearly as much as other fluids, so it stays closer to its dry boiling point.

    There's a reason SRF is everyone's go to. I've never heard of anyone preferring motul, except for cost purposes.

    I didn't even bleed my brakes in my C7GS before events. I just flushed the fluid once every 8-10 track days (I'm not even sure I needed to do that). I absolutely needed to at least flush with RBF600 as it definitely got wet after a track day or two. It worked out to be cheaper to run SRF and flush it once very 10 track days than to bleed with RBF every time. Plus, my time.

    You shouldn't really even get to its wet boiling point, anyway. And heck, its "fully wet" boiling point is only about 75 degrees below RBF600's dry (and it will never be 100% dry), lol.


    https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-flu...ow=1&SF=4&ST=2
    Thank you for that sir!
    Nick Anderson

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    Just run SRF. It's not that much more expensive when you factor in the size of the container. $60 for 1L vs $25 for 0.5L 660.

    The big thing about SRF is it has a very high WET boiling point (518 degrees). Nothing else comes close. All the Motuls are 400 degrees. It technically isn't as high dry boiling point (606 vs 617 for RBF660 and 637 for RBF700, but that's not really much a a delt and wet is what you should really consider anyway. Quite frankly, if you're getting your fluid anywhere near 600 degrees, you've probably got a failing component of some sort. The other big thing is SRF doesn't attract water nearly as much as other fluids, so it stays closer to its dry boiling point.

    There's a reason SRF is everyone's go to. I've never heard of anyone preferring motul, except for cost purposes.

    I didn't even bleed my brakes in my C7GS before events. I just flushed the fluid once every 8-10 track days (I'm not even sure I needed to do that). I absolutely needed to at least flush with RBF600 as it definitely got wet after a track day or two. It worked out to be cheaper to run SRF and flush it once very 10 track days than to bleed with RBF every time. Plus, my time.

    You shouldn't really even get to its wet boiling point, anyway. And heck, its "fully wet" boiling point is only about 75 degrees below RBF600's dry (and it will never be 100% dry), lol.


    https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-flu...ow=1&SF=4&ST=2
    I had thought about going with SRF but I tend to bleed my brakes after every track event. I don't think using SRF would stop me from doing that but it would add cost. One other thing that factored into my decision not to go the SRF route is my local race shop, 3R Racing. 3R used to campaign Vipers and were pretty well known in the Viper community. I had my ACR-E into them in the Spring for some track prep and a good going over. I asked them about brake fluid. They said that they do not use SRF because they have had too many customers come in (not necessarily Viper owners) who used SRF and were complaining about brake pedal feel. Their solution was to switch to Motul and they claim it solved the brake pedal feel issue in 100% of the cases. They suggested I stick with Motul.
    2017 ACR/TA in 2014 TA Header Orange, #4 of 10.
    2008 Vert in Viper Bright Blue with silver stripes.
    2014 GTS in white with gunmetal stripes. I'm also one of the original 100's

  6. #6
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    PFC 665 best DOT 4 brake fluid on the market today. We run it in everything requiring DOT4 brake fluid. We always have cases of it in stock.
    https://tkomotorsports.com/product/p...4-brake-fluid/

  7. #7
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGeorge View Post
    I had thought about going with SRF but I tend to bleed my brakes after every track event. I don't think using SRF would stop me from doing that but it would add cost. One other thing that factored into my decision not to go the SRF route is my local race shop, 3R Racing. 3R used to campaign Vipers and were pretty well known in the Viper community. I had my ACR-E into them in the Spring for some track prep and a good going over. I asked them about brake fluid. They said that they do not use SRF because they have had too many customers come in (not necessarily Viper owners) who used SRF and were complaining about brake pedal feel. Their solution was to switch to Motul and they claim it solved the brake pedal feel issue in 100% of the cases. They suggested I stick with Motul.
    I've never heard of such a complaint. I didn't even know fluid (unless it's boiling) changed the feel. It either compresses or doesn't, lol. Feel is almost entirely comprised of your pads, lines, pedal travel, braking system parts, etc. I've never heard of fluid adding or subtracting feel (again, outside of fade).

    I've driven COTA and the old ECR which are absolute hell on brakes on SRF and never felt the slightest fade. And I'm pretty hard on brakes (to a flaw, I can't seem to fade off the brakes fast enough).
    Last edited by Lawineer; 12-05-2022 at 11:40 AM.
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  8. #8
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM View Post
    PFC 665 best DOT 4 brake fluid on the market today. We run it in everything requiring DOT4 brake fluid. We always have cases of it in stock.
    https://tkomotorsports.com/product/p...4-brake-fluid/
    Can I ask what makes this so great? It's wet boiling point is pretty darn low (374) and its dry is "only" 554. SRF "full wet" is about the same as PFC's perfectly dry. I dont like messing with brakes, and I know I can be downright negligent with SRF and not boil it.
    Last edited by Lawineer; 12-05-2022 at 11:40 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGeorge View Post
    I had thought about going with SRF but I tend to bleed my brakes after every track event. I don't think using SRF would stop me from doing that but it would add cost. One other thing that factored into my decision not to go the SRF route is my local race shop, 3R Racing. 3R used to campaign Vipers and were pretty well known in the Viper community. I had my ACR-E into them in the Spring for some track prep and a good going over. I asked them about brake fluid. They said that they do not use SRF because they have had too many customers come in (not necessarily Viper owners) who used SRF and were complaining about brake pedal feel. Their solution was to switch to Motul and they claim it solved the brake pedal feel issue in 100% of the cases. They suggested I stick with Motul.
    That's a funny coincidence, I have a 3R built car that I run SRF in and prefer the pedal feel, particularly during longer sessions, over the RBF 660. Same goes for my Viper street car on track. Never had a problem with the Motul, the SRF has just performed even better for me.
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  10. #10
    Enthusiast 13COBRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by str5010 View Post
    That's a funny coincidence, I have a 3R built car that I run SRF in and prefer the pedal feel, particularly during longer sessions, over the RBF 660. Same goes for my Viper street car on track. Never had a problem with the Motul, the SRF has just performed even better for me.
    Which SRF do you use?
    Nick Anderson

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    Can I ask what makes this so great? It's wet boiling point is pretty darn low (374) and its dry is "only" 554. SRF "full wet" is about the same as PFC's perfectly dry. I dont like messing with brakes, and I know I can be downright negligent with SRF and not boil it.
    Few years ago we had a problem when we were racing a porcsche gt3r. Consistent problem with brake fade. Brake cooling was good, rotor temp wasn't excessive, caliper temp was ok. We tried every DOT 4 brake fluid on the market trying to cure the problem. The final solution we finally found was hot bleeding and PFC 665 fluid. We have also used PFC 665 on some street/track cars that had brake fade problems , noticeable improvement.
    The printed info on brake fluid bottles, brake fluid tech sheets and the internet is best used as reference only.

  12. #12
    Enthusiast RedTanRT/10's Avatar
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    Here's a good chart I recently saw from Grassroots Motorsport

    brake fluid chart.jpg
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  13. #13
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    When I started doing trackdays with the my '94 Viper, before every trackday I flushed with brake fluid 5.1. After building a BMW M3 e36 as a real trackdaycar and later even as pure racer, I started using SRF. I did only flush once a year, 15-20 track/race days, never had any boiling brake fluid.
    I now even put it in my SXS.
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  14. #14
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKO MOTORSPORTS TEAM View Post
    Few years ago we had a problem when we were racing a porcsche gt3r. Consistent problem with brake fade. Brake cooling was good, rotor temp wasn't excessive, caliper temp was ok. We tried every DOT 4 brake fluid on the market trying to cure the problem. The final solution we finally found was hot bleeding and PFC 665 fluid. We have also used PFC 665 on some street/track cars that had brake fade problems , noticeable improvement.
    The printed info on brake fluid bottles, brake fluid tech sheets and the internet is best used as reference only.
    I'm not sure how that can be given how much higher SRF's boiling points are.
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  15. #15
    Some track day organizers require fresh brake fluid (no more than 180 days since last change), if you are not running that many track events, Motul 600 is a solid, cost effective choice.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    I've never heard of such a complaint. I didn't even know fluid (unless it's boiling) changed the feel. It either compresses or doesn't, lol. Feel is almost entirely comprised of your pads, lines, pedal travel, braking system parts, etc. I've never heard of fluid adding or subtracting feel (again, outside of fade).

    I've driven COTA and the old ECR which are absolute hell on brakes on SRF and never felt the slightest fade. And I'm pretty hard on brakes (to a flaw, I can't seem to fade off the brakes fast enough).
    Yea, I don't know I can only report what 3R told me. I had asked them to bleed the brakes and asked them whether I should try SRF. They told me no and that they no longer use it given complaints on pedal feel. They only use Motul which is what I was using. They said that Motul 600 should work fine for a Viper. In a heavier car they would recommend 660. 700 was not available in the USA as far as I could tell last April.
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  17. #17
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    I just use the SRF React Nick.
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  18. #18
    Enthusiast Lawineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGeorge View Post
    Yea, I don't know I can only report what 3R told me. I had asked them to bleed the brakes and asked them whether I should try SRF. They told me no and that they no longer use it given complaints on pedal feel. They only use Motul which is what I was using. They said that Motul 600 should work fine for a Viper. In a heavier car they would recommend 660. 700 was not available in the USA as far as I could tell last April.
    I'd imagine a viper is going to be very taxing on brakes. Lots of power, huge tires, somewhere between some downforce and a holy hell lot of downforce and relatively undersized calipers/pads. I wouldn't mess around.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawineer View Post
    I'm not sure how that can be given how much higher SRF's boiling points are.
    Whats written and done in a lab are very different then real world application.

  20. #20
    Enthusiast Arizona Vipers's Avatar
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    SRF for me all the way. No complaints about other fluids, but with SRF I've NEVER had any brake fade. I used to bleed religiously before every event, but in the last couple years I've rarely bled them and have never had any fade. I wasted a lot of money bleeding more often than I needed too. And this is in a 900 horsepower car running 345 wide FRONT slicks and no brake cooling, running tracks like Road America where I hit 170+ three times per lap!
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