Crap despite my quick turn off of the defroster my window exploded

[TheMadMachinist]

I didn't even read all of the posts on this whole thread. But this was a problem, like eight or nine years ago. Yes it totally agree that it sucks that this could even happen at all. But lets be reasonable here. This issues nothing new. Right?

I do hope you have this issue resolved at Normaden. But I will mention I brought my 2013 into this dealership for service a few years ago and it was still under the extended warranty. On the trip to the dealership the passages window completely fell out of it's track. Then after getting to this dealership I mentioned it to them and they told me that they needed something like a few hundred dollars to diagnose the problem. What?

Anyway I hope you get some kind of resolution to your problem. I would imagine five years down the road from my issue. Parts are scarce to say the least.

Your extended warranty is only as good as your local dealership. We all know that at this point no one even cares about these car when it come from the manufacture.

If I am totally off base please feel free to school me.

[Martin]

The extended warranties are tricky. I believe each issue is treated separately, so if there's a deductible, each issue gets charged the deductible. Paul has always been great - but they did go through some fairly major issues with their techs during Covid. For a while, I believe they had a few "Viper techs" who went through the training, but weren't really experienced. Now, they have one who is really good, and the other I've never worked with. All that said, whenever I ran into issues (like getting a rental car while I had the MaxCare policy), Paul would always step in and help. Overall, they're my go-to dealer, but as with any dealership, the service is only as good as the person you're dealing with.

I had some HORRIBLE experiences with other Dodge/Jeep dealerships in the area in the past. One service manager wanted to void my warranty, and he was also going to deny service. I had to fight that one out, and I think they went out of business during the big debacle of the Chrysler bankruptcy, which they deserved.

All in all, it's really hard to find good service these days. I'm sure a lot of trained Viper techs will figure out a way to stand up some independent shops. Ted at Vallaya is good - he was my go-to guy for years, and when I pull my Gen II out of hibernation, it's going straight to him for a total go-over.

[quickster2]

You may want to check with the local Safelite as well. When I had my Cayenne S they took care of me and the local Porsche dealer sent all their glass repair/replacements to them. At least it would be another data point.

[ek1]

Martin, sorry to hear about your ACR. As Bruce correctly pointed out, the issue happens when the exposed surface of the rear defroster touches the carbon fiber surround of the hatch and since CF is conductive, it shorts out the defroster, causing the glass to shatter (Not sure about the physics of that part).

I was pretty sure that by now everyone with a Gen V put some sort of insulating tape around the defroster contacts (exactly like shown in the TSB), which effectively prevents them from ever touching the CF hatch material. Pulling the fuse is another way to do it, but then you can't use the defroster.

I hope you get your Viper back to it's glory soon. Hopefully Dodge has some rear glass somewhere.

[ek1]

Martin, forgot to mention one other thing.

There are tow trucks with beds that fold in half. I can't find the name of this contraption and can't find anything on Youtube, but any dealership that sells exotic sports cars in your area should be able to give you a contact for a towing company that has them. Try McLaren, Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley, etc. With these tow trucks, they lower the bed down and then fold it, so that the rear section is almost parallel to the ground. You drive up on it and when you are half way in, they straighten the bed, which raises the nose of the car and prevents it from rubbing/scraping. Then you just drive up the rest of the way and you are done. Takes minutes.

Update:

The truck in this video has a bed with a folding rear section. It's not the exact same thing that my dealer has, but close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcq0qqXnR8A

There is also this model where the entire bed slides down to the ground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxsX9u7O3g0

Also, make sure you force the tow truck driver to use the straps around the wheel to secure the Viper on the flatbed. Some of those ass clowns try to attach straps to control arms (big no-no)

[Sniper]

LOL my car don’t even see rain let alone anything below 50°

[Martin]

LOL my car don’t even see rain let alone anything below 50°

Yeah, mine never really did, either. But, we had some insane storms, a tree hit my garage, and things went south at that point. All in all I got off easy - I have neighbors who lost their entire homes due to mudslides. That's a complete non-insured loss - insurance doesn't cover ground movement. So, my predicament is extremely minor in comparison. I'll just keep the car in the Car Capsule, with a dehumidifier running constantly, until the weather is good enough to drive down to the dealer. By then, hopefully my garage is rebuilt - but because all of California is either flooded, under mud, or under trees, the insurance company and all the contractors are booked up for months. This has been a crazy winter - we went from unusually warm and dry "extreme drought" to flooding almost overnight.

[Mikey]

LOL my car don’t even see rain let alone anything below 50°

I drive mine anytime it's not raining
I may have used the rear defrost, now that I think about it

[ViperGeorge]

I had Mark Jorgenson check my defroster out when he was installing the 9 liter. He said it was ok but I still haven't used it.

[Martin]

So, here's an interesting twist... Even though there is a TSB on this, and it's a known issue, the TSB does NOT cover the repair. The TSB will only cover the installation of the tape that supposedly prevents this from happening. I got super pissed off at first - the window is about $1400 plus tax, and the labor is $550.

Fortunately, because this was caused by an electrical issue, my MaxCare warranty covers it, minus my deductible.

So, I think it's a good idea for EVERYONE to pull the connectors or pull the fuse for their defrosters. How a known issue can cause damage, and then have coverage denied, is beyond me. The car was in the shop about a year ago, the TSB was in effect, yet nobody told me anything about it or did anything about it. It just blows my mind - I had no idea that the problem affected my car, and the service department had my car in their possession for a few weeks, so a reasonable person would think that while it was there, they'd do a search on any recalls or TSBs that may be in effect.

If I didn't have the MaxCare policy in force, I'd be seriously pissed right now. As it stands, I'm just annoyed and perplexed as to how far downhill the Dodge brand has gone since Stellantis took over. I get the feeling that they probably wish they never built Vipers.

[Sniper]

Exactly why I pulled my fuse!
I’ve noticed I have to bring up recalls or TSBs as the dealer doesn’t mention them. If I remember once I was at the dealership and they said they can’t bring something up, I’d have to request it.

[Martin]

It's a bit insane - and it wasn't always like this. When I bought my first Gen II back in '97, Dodge treated me like royalty. Now, Stellantis doesn't give a crap about their most loyal customers. I was about to buy another Rubicon for my wife, and now I'm re-thinking that plan.

I would hate to be one of those people who pays big bucks for an out of warranty ACR-E, get it home, press the defroster button, and have the window go boom - and then find out Stellantis won't cover a manufacturing defect that they issued a service bulletin for. It's just shameful.

[Steve-Indy]

The real question remains: how confident are you that your local dealership will be able to do a job that lives up to your expectations. With all due respect, being friends with the owner means little if the shop does not have experienced, caring, and willing technicians. This is not just a Viper...but a "creme de la creme" of Vipers. Have you even explored the Prefix concept at this point? I'm sure hoping this goes well.

[Martin]

You're right Steve. I am putting a lot of faith into them, and between now and when the window comes in, I'm going to ask Paul about their Viper techs. Years ago, they were the go-to shop for just about everyone in Northern California. Paul Normandin is a die-hard Viper fanatic, and I trust him. But, if they don't have a good tech, I may try to see what else can be done. I've heard that trying to take the whole hatch off and then get it back on with proper alignment is risky, and I'm quite sure Stellantis won't ship the whole car to Prefix on their dime.

They've done these window replacements before, but again, who knows if the same Viper techs are still there. A lot changed during Covid, and people may have moved on.

[TIME]

You're right Steve. I am putting a lot of faith into them, and between now and when the window comes in, I'm going to ask Paul about their Viper techs. Years ago, they were the go-to shop for just about everyone in Northern California. Paul Normandin is a die-hard Viper fanatic, and I trust him. But, if they don't have a good tech, I may try to see what else can be done. I've heard that trying to take the whole hatch off and then get it back on with proper alignment is risky, and I'm quite sure Stellantis won't ship the whole car to Prefix on their dime.

They've done these window replacements before, but again, who knows if the same Viper techs are still there. A lot changed during Covid, and people may have moved on.

Hi Martin, sorry to hear about your defroster mishap.

FWIW: I just bought my OTA 59/93 from Paul Normandin. I am having a few items fixed (window motor & door hinge) before taking delivery. Talking to Paul about their tech gave me the outmost confidence that it is in good hands. I have no concerns whatsoever, and I truly appreciate the way everything has been handled so far. And yes, I am having the leads for the defroster inspected and corrected as needed.

We are lucky to have the Normandin dealership in the area.

[Martin]

Hi Martin, sorry to hear about your defroster mishap.

FWIW: I just bought my OTA 59/93 from Paul Normandin. I am having a few items fixed (window motor & door hinge) before taking delivery. Talking to Paul about their tech gave me the outmost confidence that it is in good hands. I have no concerns whatsoever, and I truly appreciate the way everything has been handled so far. And yes, I am having the leads for the defroster inspected and corrected as needed.

We are lucky to have the Normandin dealership in the area.

Congrats on the OTA!! I was just down there and I didn't see it - but Paul tends to hide things away because kids will stick their hands on anything in the showroom.

I'm confident that Normandin can get the job done. Just about everyone goes to them for Viper service, so they can justify the expense of keeping Viper techs up to date. One guy there is outstanding - he pulled my door apart to fix some things, and the work was perfect. I couldn't even tell that he worked on it, except that everything functioned properly.

[Martin]

Gotta say, those Car Capsules are fantastic. I got one that is 20' long, it has a ton of room in the front and back for things, and it seems to be sturdy as heck. I've got a dehumidifier running, and I put a temperature gauge and humidity sensor in there, and it's keeping the capsule at a decent temperature and a humidity of around 70%. That's much better than the outside humidity of 99%.... I did have to run a chunk of garden hose outside of the capsule to drain the moisture out of the dehumidifier, but that's no big deal - just let it run where the zippers meet, and it drains nicely. I think I'll get a few more of these because I've got way too many cars, and I'm always fighting the mice away.

[Martin]

An update - the dealer texted me, and the rear window is on the way. I'm not sure if these things get built on an as-needed basis, but from what she described, it sounds like they go straight through the manufacturer. It didn't sound like an off the shelf product as she apparently had to talk to them directly and they had specific instructions on how to properly install it. It's a two day process, which sounds much more complicated than what I've experienced from the usual glass companies that just pop the glass in. Apparently these windows are a stressed structural part of the rear hatch, and they need a special adhesive. Maybe I'm not understanding everything, but it definitely doesn't sound like something Safelite could do. In any event, towards the end of the month I'll drive it in, and hopefully it's not raining and my road isn't full of mudslides and downed trees.

[Dan Cragin]

The window does not come complete and needs to be installed by a sublet company. The dealer most likely will have someone come out
and do it. The glass needs to be glued in with a special adhesive and aligned properly. The most important thing is the placement of the glass
in respect to the defroster grid and connection, it cant contact the carbon fiber rear deck lid in any way.

Hope this helps,

Dan

[Martin]

Thanks Dan, that explains a lot. I'm hopeful that whoever they bring out is going to be really good. The sublet company is probably why Paul initially told me that he might be able to get people out to my place and do the job without me having to bring it his service department. I might ask him if that's still an option - but if the colder conditions here might mess things up, I'd rather they do it at their place. Keeping my fingers crossed that they do it right!