im shocked.

no offense to anyone who doesnt own a viper, but this is a “viper owners” forum. owners should be given priority and positions of web committee, moderator, BOD, whatever.

but also, plum having an avatar showing a viper gives the impression he currently has one. not having one is well – dishonest. everyone left the VCA over all the dishonesty that was going on over there. this could very well look like “same-ol shit, different day”. maybe its just me, but i want this club to take the higher road, i want this club to be HONEST, and i dont want this club looking like another “good-ol boys” club like we had at the VCA. people being given key positions in a “viper owners” club who dont own vipers looks just like that. sorry, just being honest.

i think we are off to a very bad start with this.

While i’m sure the forums will be open to all (like the VCA, Alley, VG are) I feel that as far as the Mod/Web Committee positions those should be held by members of the Assoc. This is nothing personal against Plum and Whitebeard. I’m sure they are well suited for their positions. I just feel with this being the Associations official website that those in the association should be in those positions of authority.

Web Driver’s situation is a little different and I feel comfortable with him in his position. He was chosen by National to create the site and again i’m comfortable with him in him position.

big-n-italian said:
im shocked.

no offense to anyone who doesnt own a viper, but this is a "viper owners" forum. owners should be given priority and positions of web committee, moderator, BOD, whatever.

but also, plum having an avatar showing a viper gives the impression he currently has one. not having one is well – dishonest. everyone left the VCA over all the dishonesty that was going on over there. this could very well look like "same-ol shit, different day". maybe its just me, but i want this club to take the higher road, i want this club to be HONEST, and i dont want this club looking like another "good-ol boys" club like we had at the VCA. people being given key positions in a "viper owners" club who dont own vipers looks just like that. sorry, just being honest.

i think we are off to a very bad start with this.

I’m sure Plum and WB were chosen to help per what CITY had laid out as far as his comfort level with the list of potential candidates he was given by National. He knows them from the past and has worked with them on some level in the past and he has a comfort level with them to do the task they were assigned. Also, they (plum and WB) may have contacted national VOA at some point in the begining and offered to help the club in any way they could. Which I’m sure most of us here did as well.

we cant give ANYONE a reason to question or bitch about anything. anyone left at the VCA (or at the alley) will eat us alive over the simplest things we do wrong. the VOA/us will be scrutinized heavily and we will be living in a fish bowl for a very long time. we will have to be squeeky clean and on the up-and-up with everything to be non-VCA.

01sapphirebob said:
I'm sure Plum and WB were chosen to help per what CITY had laid out as far as his comfort level with the list of potential candidates he was given by National. He knows them from the past and has worked with them on some level in the past and he has a comfort level with them to do the task they were assigned. Also, they (plum and WB) may have contacted national VOA at some point in the begining and offered to help the club in any way they could. Which I'm sure most of us here did as well.

there are 460 people (who are owners) on facebook waiting for this site to open, many of whom offered their time to volunteer in some capacity. i dont get the impression we are short on help. i like plum and WB seems like he would be a good person to have around here too. but neither is an owner in what i think should be an owners-run club.

I agree with Big.

web driver, no prob. Behind the scenes.

moderators, leadership positions, viper owners, like the title of the site.

Vipergirl-you don’t own a viper either? The avatar gives the impression you do still own that one.

I don’t agree with having moderators that don’t own vipers. Yeh, if you are in between
vipers, be a member, not a mod.

I just want to know how this is going to be before I commit to this site. I moderated on one site that was not what I agreed with (vca), don’t want to be web committee on another if I think it doesn’t represent the right thing to the viper owners.

Nothing personal.

big-n-italian said:
there are 460 people (who are owners) on facebook waiting for this site to open, many of whom offered their time to volunteer in some capacity. i dont get the impression we are short on help. i like plum and WB seems like he would be a good person to have around here too. but neither is an owner in what i think should be an owners-run club.

I agree. I was just putting forth a possible explanation as to why they were chosen.

Yes, I feel if you do not own a viper you should not be a leader on a ‘viper owner’s forum and should step down. I think it’s completely different if yeh, you sold your Viper, waiting on delivery of another one, etc etc. But what’s too long to be a non-owner and be a mod. on a viper OWNER’s forum?

This is not a good start, 4 mods that are non-viper owners.

I hope you brought us on as web committee members because you respected our opinions, especially since we are the Viper owners and know a lot of people in our community.

I want this to be an open discussion now, no hiding behind avatars, I want to know how it’s going to be so I can decide what I want to represent.

Leslie said:
Vipergirl-you don't own a viper either? The avatar gives the impression you do still own that one.

I don't agree with having moderators that don't own vipers. Yeh, if you are in betwwen i
vipers, be a member, not a mod.

I just want to know how this is going to be before I commit to this site. I moderated on one site that was not what I agreed with (vca), don't want to be web committee on another if I think it doesn't represent the right thing to the viper owners.

Nothing personal.

i agree. look, i left the VCA because of all the dishonesty and BS that was going on over there. i left because i held a position higher than a member, and i felt that in that position, it was my name that was on all that dishonesty and BS, and i was therefore in approval of all that. i dont want to go back to any of that.

i think we need to hear from alex, maurice and janni concerning this. but to me, it isnt making any sense. IMO, either someone(s) was completely clueless or some very bad decisions were made. nothing personal, and my apologies to those of you who dont currently own cars. but to me, it seems logical that ownership should be a requirement for certain things. ???

I’m hoping that this open discussion has only helped the group.

As a result of all this, I forwarded an email to many of the directors/founders which included Maurice, Alex, Janni among others. Not only was there a consensus, but all the responses were unanimous (though a few of those included in the email chain have not yet responded).

The overwhelming opinion is that moderating in the VOA forum does NOT and should NOT require Viper ownership. The VOA Forum is removed first from VOA membership and additionally from the VOA website. Familiarity with moderating and the ability to communicate such moderation is the key required characteristic.

We’ll deal with the issue of potential misunderstanding with transparency. So if at all possible, let’s try to move beyond this immediately. I realize that this decision may not satisfy everyone, but further discussion will not serve anything positive. Let’s try to rally behind each other and get in shape for the onslaught. I have heard from reliable sources that we are going to have a tsunami of VCA venom over here in the forum. Our tolerance alone of such hash discussion will be mind blowing for members.

Thanks everyone! This all ain’t easy.

Scott, I was so hoping you weren’t going to say that.

I am sorry, no hard feelings, I don’t agree and don’t want to be on a committee that represents something I don’t agree on.

I will stay on the site as a viper owner, please just remove me from the web committee.

thanks.

i know how to resolve this.

this new club is suppose to be about the members – correct? let the members decide, right? afterall, thats why we will be holding elections, correct?

when we have a minimum 250 members enrolled in this website, we put the situation up for a vote.

should it be a requirement that the people running the “Viper Owners Association” club own a viper?
[ ] yes
[ ] no

i would like to see what the membership says about this. if we are a member driven club, it should be a member decision. not mine, not anyone elses. this is a simple question that can be answered by the membership.

the decision should be final and corrections made immediately if necessary.

I would be willing to be a member of the web committee IF the viper owners agree with this, AND if our opinion counts for something.

Why are we here as web committee members if we are telling you what the Viper owner community wants on a forum? They are ready for honesty, and people that represent what we drive.

If you are concerned about a vocal minority (because, honestly, most people wont give a shit, so we’re talking about the vocal few who will speak up) then a poll isnt going to provide you a clear direction.

It sounds more like this is a personal issue and the idea someone would put up mandates about what they require in order to participate is pretty shallow, IMO.

City said:
I'm hoping that this open discussion has only helped the group.

As a result of all this, I forwarded an email to many of the directors/founders which included Maurice, Alex, Janni among others. Not only was there a consensus, but all the responses were unanimous (though a few of those included in the email chain have not yet responded).

The overwhelming opinion is that moderating in the VOA forum does NOT and should NOT require Viper ownership. The VOA Forum is removed first from VOA membership and additionally from the VOA website. Familiarity with moderating and the ability to communicate such moderation is the key required characteristic.

We'll deal with the issue of potential misunderstanding with transparency. So if at all possible, let's try to move beyond this immediately. I realize that this decision may not satisfy everyone, but further discussion will not serve anything positive. Let's try to rally behind each other and get in shape for the onslaught. I have heard from reliable sources that we are going to have a tsunami of VCA venom over here in the forum. Our tolerance alone of such hash discussion will be mind blowing for members.

Thanks everyone! This all ain't easy.

Thanks for the update Scott. I respect the National VOA’s decision. I understand their reasons behind why those that are mods were chosen to be mods. If they(National VOA) are comfortable with this then so am I. However I will state one more time that I still feel those that are Mods/Committe members should be owners/members of the assocation. I will still be more then happy to be on the Committee. As far as looking into this down the road after the Association gets some miles under its tires…I don;t have a problem with that. Those that are in place are there for a reason. Lets move on. I’ve said my piece and its in print here for future reference. 🙂 Lets get ready for tomorrow!

pj said:
If you are concerned about a vocal minority (because, honestly, most people wont give a shit, so we're talking about the vocal few who will speak up) then a poll isnt going to provide you a clear direction.

It sounds more like this is a personal issue and the idea someone would put up mandates about what they require in order to participate is pretty shallow, IMO.

well, this is interesting – when our opinions differ, we will be resorting to name calling? fuck you pj. besides not owning a viper asshole, you obviously dont own a viper-related avatar as required under the rules. rule #1 for mods – know the rules. look at everyone elses avatar and take a hint.

and this isnt about being shallow, this is about giving the members what they have always wanted – transparency, and doing what is right and not being misleading. thats what got us in trouble in the first place. sorry, but i think if are running this website, you should actually own a car. the VCA had some things right such as moderators actually owning a car. why dont we ask the membership to see what their expectations are over this? if they dont care, then i stand corrected. if they do care and want owners running the site, then their opinions should matter and the policy should be changed. i find it humorous that everyone on this thread who doesnt own a car thinks its acceptable, and those that do think its not. what a surprise.

hahaha…. you obviously dont know shit.

Guys lets try to keep our cool here. We are on the same team. We have a difference of opinion (which is fine) and it has sparked debate which is great. It appears however this issue has been settled by national VOA that that ownership of a car/membership in the association is not required. Lets move on. We have A LOT of guests coming over for dinner tomorrow. 😀

Wow, pj, I have never met you, but your post….

Glad this all came out now.

You know, when I started the Alley it was because someone said ‘if you dont like it, leave’. So, I did. And I started something else that gave me a lot of insight to not just offering up opinions, but running a website that consumes your time. You wanted an honest discussion, I gave an honest reply. I said I was indifferent to what the final decision was/is, and I still am.

i can easliy change the avatar if you guys want. but if you dont want me to be a mod, i have no issue with it either.

01sapphirebob said:
Guys lets try to keep our cool here. We are on the same team. We have a difference of opinion (which is fine) and it has sparked debate which is great. It appears however this issue has been settled by national VOA that that ownership of a car/membership in the association is not required. Lets move on. We have A LOT of guests coming over for dinner tomorrow. 😀

EXACTLY!

I must admit that the intensity has really surprised me. Big, I really think you’re over the top here. Trust me that PJ (and to a much lesser extent, me) has seen and dealt with SO much more of than miniscule disagreement that the situation here barely approaches petty. I appreciate your defending Leslie, but PJ is not attacking. We’ve all got to thicken our skin in here. We’re among friends (Christ, I sound like some middle school social soccer coach).

Leslie has made her decision and though I must admit to being terribly disappointed, that’s done. She’s also informed the directors of her decision.

This jumping the gun, misinterpretation of text and intent, is exactly the cause of most of the moderation in which we will be engaged! Is this some kind of off the cuff practice session???

So let’s PLEASE take a breath and perhaps avoid any further conversation regarding this issue for some time. There is obviously some disagreement amongst us and it is unlikely that anyone is going to convince the other of their position. So there’s no point to continue.

We’ll figure out something regarding avatars with cooler heads.

I put up Neo simply as a placeholder as I didnt want to get caught up in the ‘misrepresentation’ debate about who owns/doesnt own a Viper.

I wasnt attacking anyone, I was simply pointing out that the ‘must own a viper’ position is very windbreaker/VCA-ish and feeds right into the elitist mentality that gets people on the defensive.

I came here because I’m a Janni fan and Scott asked me. I’ve also been a fan of Maurice since I met him (and I still have those photos, dude)…

I’ll leave you with this little trip down memory lane….

http://www.viperalley.com/fun/MillionDollarShoot-768.wmv

No hard feelings… 🙂